Terminal Dump at MAF after US Soldier attempts to bring bomb thru TSA checkpoint
Jan 13, 2012, 8:03 pm
#136
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Try reading between the lines of this article:
KWTX:
Soldier Caught With C4 In Carry-On Bag At Texas Airport Freed
January 6, 2012
A short quote:
Court documents show that Atwater told the FBI he's a demolitions expert who returned from Afghanistan in April. He said his Army Special Forces team always carried C-4, but he didn't know it was in his bag when he returned to the U.S.
andThe court documents don't indicate whether authorities think the C4 was in his bag, but missed in the screening processes, when he was stopped in North Carolina.
Sargent Atwater says that he returned from Afghanistan with C4 in his bag. He then flew FAY to MAF with that particular bag, prior to being caught with the C4 when he attempted to fly MAF to FAY. It seems pretty obvious to me that the C4 would have been in his bag when he flew FAY to MAF. If it was not in his bag for the FAY to MAF trip, then how did the C4 get into his bag prior to his return trip?
Jan 13, 2012, 8:12 pm
#137
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AP: Soldier’s account to investigators indicates he may have flown to Texas with C4
An Associated Press article that Ron may have missed:
Associated Press article:
Soldier’s account to investigators indicates he may have flown to Texas with explosives in bag
(Posted on WashingtonPost.com)
The opening sentence of the article is:
Associated Press article:
Soldier’s account to investigators indicates he may have flown to Texas with explosives in bag
(Posted on WashingtonPost.com)
The opening sentence of the article is:
MIDLAND, Texas — A soldier charged with trying to bring explosives on an airplane in Texas told investigators he used them in Afghanistan but didn’t realize any were in a bag he brought back to the U.S. and apparently carried on a flight from North Carolina to Texas.
Last edited by RatherBeOnATrain; Jan 16, 2012 at 5:19 am Reason: Inserted Missing Link to Article!
Jan 14, 2012, 6:33 am
#138
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Ron,
Try reading between the lines of this article:
KWTX:
Soldier Caught With C4 In Carry-On Bag At Texas Airport Freed
January 6, 2012
A short quote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that the C4 would have been in his bag when he flew FAY to MAF. If it was not in his bag for the FAY to MAF trip, then how did the C4 get into his bag prior to his return trip?
Try reading between the lines of this article:
KWTX:
Soldier Caught With C4 In Carry-On Bag At Texas Airport Freed
January 6, 2012
A short quote:
Court documents show that Atwater told the FBI he's a demolitions expert who returned from Afghanistan in April. He said his Army Special Forces team always carried C-4, but he didn't know it was in his bag when he returned to the U.S.
andThe court documents don't indicate whether authorities think the C4 was in his bag, but missed in the screening processes, when he was stopped in North Carolina.
Sargent Atwater says that he returned from Afghanistan with C4 in his bag. He then flew FAY to MAF with that particular bag, prior to being caught with the C4 when he attempted to fly MAF to FAY. It seems pretty obvious to me that the C4 would have been in his bag when he flew FAY to MAF. If it was not in his bag for the FAY to MAF trip, then how did the C4 get into his bag prior to his return trip?
Jan 14, 2012, 9:32 am
#139
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Everybody (who doesn't work for the TSA) is saying or surmising the C4 was in the bag the whole time, out and back. Will the TSA ever admit it publicly ? Not a chance, but it's indicative that only one of the Usual Suspects is playing "It Never Happened".
Jan 14, 2012, 11:19 am
#140
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The only acceptable 'proof' for some employees will be when Bob says that it wasn't so.
Both Bob and Fayetteville are being disconcertingly quiet about this.
This is the only incident since TSA began that has bothered me.
I know we have gaping security holes - not screening airport employees and TSOs at every entry to the sterile areas of the airport (in the case of Minetta Walters, it appears that she and her friends bypassed screening again and again) and not screening cargo.
I know checkpoint operators miss things all the time. We've seen a TSO post here justifying hands inside pants and collars because someone like James Bond could conceal something deadly in these areas. We've seen posts from a TSO reminding us that there could be plots demanding multiple operators at multiple airports bringing illicit components through checkpoints for later assembly inside the sterile area. We've been assured that this is why TSA can seem so anal - terrorists will use any means - Granny's depends, an ostomy bag, a baby's diapers (but apparently not the shoes of a child under 12). We've had it explained to us that if we knew what they knew, we'd understand that cheese and stacks of books can look just like explosive. We've been reminded that even small amounts of explosive could be smuggled through in crotches and hair.
I honestly never in a million years would have believed 4+ pounds of nasty (apparently in the original government wrapper - not much attempt at 'artful concealment' there) could make it through a checkpoint, particularly in a bag that was flagged and opened to remove another prohibited object.
That just boggles my mind, and the fact that neither Fayetteville nor Bob have issued statements to the contrary speaks volumes.
Both Bob and Fayetteville are being disconcertingly quiet about this.
This is the only incident since TSA began that has bothered me.
I know we have gaping security holes - not screening airport employees and TSOs at every entry to the sterile areas of the airport (in the case of Minetta Walters, it appears that she and her friends bypassed screening again and again) and not screening cargo.
I know checkpoint operators miss things all the time. We've seen a TSO post here justifying hands inside pants and collars because someone like James Bond could conceal something deadly in these areas. We've seen posts from a TSO reminding us that there could be plots demanding multiple operators at multiple airports bringing illicit components through checkpoints for later assembly inside the sterile area. We've been assured that this is why TSA can seem so anal - terrorists will use any means - Granny's depends, an ostomy bag, a baby's diapers (but apparently not the shoes of a child under 12). We've had it explained to us that if we knew what they knew, we'd understand that cheese and stacks of books can look just like explosive. We've been reminded that even small amounts of explosive could be smuggled through in crotches and hair.
I honestly never in a million years would have believed 4+ pounds of nasty (apparently in the original government wrapper - not much attempt at 'artful concealment' there) could make it through a checkpoint, particularly in a bag that was flagged and opened to remove another prohibited object.
That just boggles my mind, and the fact that neither Fayetteville nor Bob have issued statements to the contrary speaks volumes.
Jan 14, 2012, 1:53 pm
#141
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Posts: 2,195
Ron,
Try reading between the lines of this article:
KWTX:
Soldier Caught With C4 In Carry-On Bag At Texas Airport Freed
January 6, 2012
A short quote:
It seems pretty obvious to me that the C4 would have been in his bag when he flew FAY to MAF. If it was not in his bag for the FAY to MAF trip, then how did the C4 get into his bag prior to his return trip?
Try reading between the lines of this article:
KWTX:
Soldier Caught With C4 In Carry-On Bag At Texas Airport Freed
January 6, 2012
A short quote:
Court documents show that Atwater told the FBI he's a demolitions expert who returned from Afghanistan in April. He said his Army Special Forces team always carried C-4, but he didn't know it was in his bag when he returned to the U.S.
andThe court documents don't indicate whether authorities think the C4 was in his bag, but missed in the screening processes, when he was stopped in North Carolina.
Sargent Atwater says that he returned from Afghanistan with C4 in his bag. He then flew FAY to MAF with that particular bag, prior to being caught with the C4 when he attempted to fly MAF to FAY. It seems pretty obvious to me that the C4 would have been in his bag when he flew FAY to MAF. If it was not in his bag for the FAY to MAF trip, then how did the C4 get into his bag prior to his return trip?
We know for a fact that he had it in the bag on the date of its discovery. Prior to that, well we have only his word, sort of. Even the soldier is not real clear on that. We also know for a fact that he had a bag with a live smoke grenade in it a week or so earlier. Was it the same bag? Maybe, maybe not. Everything else is assumption and may not be accurate. Is that what you are willing to hang your hat on, your “assumptions” of what may or may not have actually happened? Sure TSA misses things, when was the last time you didn’t put the toilet seat down? We are all human.
My question is what made this guy think it was “OK” to bring C4 home with him from the war? And how far is the military willing to go to teach him the error of his ways? I don’t wish anything harsh for the guy, after all I consider him and the others over there fighting to be hero’s, but bringing 2.5 pounds of high explosives home must have a consequence.
Jan 14, 2012, 2:53 pm
#142
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Every time the TSA tries to explain why a procedure is needed, it is hanging it's hat on an assumption.
TSA assumes that if something was tried once, it might be tried again.
TSA assumes a bottle of water might be part of a bomb, right up to the moment it is dumped in a bin at the checkpoint. At that very moment, the TSA's assumption changes, and it assumes it is just a bottle of water.
TSA assumes it's own employees won't be part of a plot so they do not need screening.
Jan 14, 2012, 2:55 pm
#143
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Hard to separate fact from speculation here.
Has anyone seen proof that "this guy [thought] it was “OK” to bring C4 home with him from the war"? I'm not assuming that he did.
Do we have proof that it came home with him from the war? As far as I know, so far "we have only his word, sort of. Even the soldier is not real clear on that".
Someone speculated, without any basis in fact that I could see, that he might have had a 'garage' in Texas and that he might have kept it there. There was even speculation, IIRC, that it might have come from one of the military bases there.
Sad that people have such distrust and disrespect for the members of our military who put boots on the ground and lives on the line to actually protect our American freedoms.
Sad that people want to see a veteran of combat duty punished harshly for what may turn out to be the result of an honest mistake. After all, "TSA misses things" too, and "We are all human." I wonder "how far is [TSA] willing to go to teach [them] the error of [their] ways" if it turns out that someone did miss the C4 at the Fayetteville checkpoint?
As a concerned traveller, I welcomed TSA's clarification on the cupcake issue. I appreciated a quick and timely post on the matter. I myself might have been guilty of thinking I could take one of these through the checkpoint.
I welcomed TSA's explanations about how blocks of cheese or stacks of books look like explosive on the xrays, so I should pack accordingly. When I do carry books now, I remove them from my bag and put them in a separate bin at the checkpoint to facilitate screening. If I ever have occasion to travel with a block of cheese, I will do the same.
I look forward to TSA's assurances that there is no way there was a lapse in security at the Fayetteville checkpoint that could have put people's lives in jeopardy.
Has anyone seen proof that "this guy [thought] it was “OK” to bring C4 home with him from the war"? I'm not assuming that he did.
Do we have proof that it came home with him from the war? As far as I know, so far "we have only his word, sort of. Even the soldier is not real clear on that".
Someone speculated, without any basis in fact that I could see, that he might have had a 'garage' in Texas and that he might have kept it there. There was even speculation, IIRC, that it might have come from one of the military bases there.
Sad that people have such distrust and disrespect for the members of our military who put boots on the ground and lives on the line to actually protect our American freedoms.
Sad that people want to see a veteran of combat duty punished harshly for what may turn out to be the result of an honest mistake. After all, "TSA misses things" too, and "We are all human." I wonder "how far is [TSA] willing to go to teach [them] the error of [their] ways" if it turns out that someone did miss the C4 at the Fayetteville checkpoint?
As a concerned traveller, I welcomed TSA's clarification on the cupcake issue. I appreciated a quick and timely post on the matter. I myself might have been guilty of thinking I could take one of these through the checkpoint.
I welcomed TSA's explanations about how blocks of cheese or stacks of books look like explosive on the xrays, so I should pack accordingly. When I do carry books now, I remove them from my bag and put them in a separate bin at the checkpoint to facilitate screening. If I ever have occasion to travel with a block of cheese, I will do the same.
I look forward to TSA's assurances that there is no way there was a lapse in security at the Fayetteville checkpoint that could have put people's lives in jeopardy.
Last edited by chollie; Jan 14, 2012 at 3:29 pm
Jan 14, 2012, 3:13 pm
#144
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KOSA: Veterans Defend Trey Scott Atwater, Saying War Weapons are Typical Souvenirs
CBS 7 / KOSA
Veterans Defend Trey Scott Atwater, Saying War Weapons are Typical Souvenirs 1/6/12
January 6, 2012
The article opens with:
MIDLAND, TX – Staff Sgt. Trey Scot Atwater was arrested last Saturday after he was caught with explosives at Midland International Airport, they were explosives he says he accidentally left in his bag from Afghanistan.
In the statement Atwater gave to investigators he says he was shocked when the C-4 explosives were found and that he didn't remember seeing them in his bag when he packed.
Today veterans like Johnie Lee Qualls said they don't think it's that outrageous that C-4 ended up in the U.S.
In the statement Atwater gave to investigators he says he was shocked when the C-4 explosives were found and that he didn't remember seeing them in his bag when he packed.
Today veterans like Johnie Lee Qualls said they don't think it's that outrageous that C-4 ended up in the U.S.
Jan 14, 2012, 3:19 pm
#145
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I’d rather not “read between the lines” sir. That is where assumptions are born (as is shown in the other individuals post), and errors occur. I’d rather wait on the facts than speculate about what seems reasonable and what is not. The term “reasonable” has some very irrational meanings to many folks in this forum.
Interesting perspective. And the proof supporting your assumption is where? Should I hold my breath waiting on it, or can we move on now?
We know for a fact that he had it in the bag on the date of its discovery. Prior to that, well we have only his word, sort of. Even the soldier is not real clear on that. We also know for a fact that he had a bag with a live smoke grenade in it a week or so earlier. Was it the same bag? Maybe, maybe not. Everything else is assumption and may not be accurate. Is that what you are willing to hang your hat on, your “assumptions” of what may or may not have actually happened? Sure TSA misses things, when was the last time you didn’t put the toilet seat down? We are all human.
Interesting perspective. And the proof supporting your assumption is where? Should I hold my breath waiting on it, or can we move on now?
We know for a fact that he had it in the bag on the date of its discovery. Prior to that, well we have only his word, sort of. Even the soldier is not real clear on that. We also know for a fact that he had a bag with a live smoke grenade in it a week or so earlier. Was it the same bag? Maybe, maybe not. Everything else is assumption and may not be accurate. Is that what you are willing to hang your hat on, your “assumptions” of what may or may not have actually happened? Sure TSA misses things, when was the last time you didn’t put the toilet seat down? We are all human.
Jan 14, 2012, 3:32 pm
#146
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The only acceptable 'proof' for some employees will be when Bob says that it wasn't so.
Both Bob and Fayetteville are being disconcertingly quiet about this.
This is the only incident since TSA began that has bothered me.
I know we have gaping security holes - not screening airport employees and TSOs at every entry to the sterile areas of the airport (in the case of Minetta Walters, it appears that she and her friends bypassed screening again and again) and not screening cargo.
I know checkpoint operators miss things all the time. We've seen a TSO post here justifying hands inside pants and collars because someone like James Bond could conceal something deadly in these areas. We've seen posts from a TSO reminding us that there could be plots demanding multiple operators at multiple airports bringing illicit components through checkpoints for later assembly inside the sterile area. We've been assured that this is why TSA can seem so anal - terrorists will use any means - Granny's depends, an ostomy bag, a baby's diapers (but apparently not the shoes of a child under 12). We've had it explained to us that if we knew what they knew, we'd understand that cheese and stacks of books can look just like explosive. We've been reminded that even small amounts of explosive could be smuggled through in crotches and hair.
I honestly never in a million years would have believed 4+ pounds of nasty (apparently in the original government wrapper - not much attempt at 'artful concealment' there) could make it through a checkpoint, particularly in a bag that was flagged and opened to remove another prohibited object.
That just boggles my mind, and the fact that neither Fayetteville nor Bob have issued statements to the contrary speaks volumes.
Both Bob and Fayetteville are being disconcertingly quiet about this.
This is the only incident since TSA began that has bothered me.
I know we have gaping security holes - not screening airport employees and TSOs at every entry to the sterile areas of the airport (in the case of Minetta Walters, it appears that she and her friends bypassed screening again and again) and not screening cargo.
I know checkpoint operators miss things all the time. We've seen a TSO post here justifying hands inside pants and collars because someone like James Bond could conceal something deadly in these areas. We've seen posts from a TSO reminding us that there could be plots demanding multiple operators at multiple airports bringing illicit components through checkpoints for later assembly inside the sterile area. We've been assured that this is why TSA can seem so anal - terrorists will use any means - Granny's depends, an ostomy bag, a baby's diapers (but apparently not the shoes of a child under 12). We've had it explained to us that if we knew what they knew, we'd understand that cheese and stacks of books can look just like explosive. We've been reminded that even small amounts of explosive could be smuggled through in crotches and hair.
I honestly never in a million years would have believed 4+ pounds of nasty (apparently in the original government wrapper - not much attempt at 'artful concealment' there) could make it through a checkpoint, particularly in a bag that was flagged and opened to remove another prohibited object.
That just boggles my mind, and the fact that neither Fayetteville nor Bob have issued statements to the contrary speaks volumes.
AS I surmised on the TSA Blog:
TSA is a reflection of its leadership. TSA has no reflection.
Jan 14, 2012, 4:37 pm
#147
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There was this CBS 7 (KOSA) article:
... In the statement Atwater gave to investigators he says he was shocked when the C-4 explosives were found and that he didn't remember seeing them in his bag when he packed ... veterans ... said they don't think it's that outrageous that C-4 ended up in the U.S.
... In the statement Atwater gave to investigators he says he was shocked when the C-4 explosives were found and that he didn't remember seeing them in his bag when he packed ... veterans ... said they don't think it's that outrageous that C-4 ended up in the U.S.
) It's strange but not unusually quiet on the low key handling of this matter - well, I supposed the top military brass are pissed off more about other events in the news earlier this week, blowing up in their faces. And, not a joking matter at all. (unrelated to topic & TSA is off the hook on those matters)
Jan 14, 2012, 4:48 pm
#148
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This C-4 breach, whether the result of being forgotten or ignorant - as I wanted to believe that it wasn't evil or intentional otherwise - is more serious, if the attitude is rationalized as as a souvenir from the war - especially when thousands were killed & injured by, IED, in various shapes & forms (possibly including cupcakes. )
It's strange but not unusually quiet on the low key handling of this matter - well, I supposed the top military brass are pissed off more about other events in the news earlier this week, blowing up in their faces. And, not a joking matter at all. (unrelated to topic & TSA is off the hook on those matters)
) It's strange but not unusually quiet on the low key handling of this matter - well, I supposed the top military brass are pissed off more about other events in the news earlier this week, blowing up in their faces. And, not a joking matter at all. (unrelated to topic & TSA is off the hook on those matters)
Seems like there's been plenty of time to review the checkpoint tapes and interview the checkpoint workers in Fayetteville to determine whether or not there was a security breach at that checkpoint.
We've been told that if we are not permitted to keep our belongings in sight at a checkpoint and something gets stolen, the tapes can be reviewed so quickly that the thief will probably be caught almost immediately, so it's hard to understand why the review of the checkpoint's handling of this guy is taking so long.
That would be a completely separate investigation from the military's investigation into how the stuff was acquired. That's an investigation that could conceivably take much longer, involve more people, classified info, etc.
Jan 14, 2012, 5:00 pm
#149
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The TSA Cupcake Screw UP went viral and was getting attention around the world. That is the only reason for TSA's response. And in my opinion the TSA response demonstrated much of what is wrong with the agency.
The C-4 story never got legs and didn't need a TSA cover up.
The C-4 story never got legs and didn't need a TSA cover up.
Jan 14, 2012, 8:14 pm
#150
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 733
My guess is that TSA's response to cupcakegate allowed them to divert attention away from the C-4 they missed, thereby allowing them the opportunity to ignore it altogether.