doober

danl08

LOL
You are either a troll or a fool. Your claim is that since TSA didn't find the grenade and c4 at the same time they couldn't have possibly been in the same bag. No one is "saying it" because it was obvious to all involved that the same bag that held the grenade also held the c4 (and then confirmed in the Reuters article). You may not be holding your breath, but you do have your head pretty far down in the sand........

Why is it so hard for you to admit that TSa completely blew it and missed the c4 the first time around? Its not like you guys have a great track record for picking these things up on a regular basis or am I also reading your 70% failure rate wrong too?

Wally Bird

I don't think they are even doing that, just completely ignoring it. The corporate version of It Never Happened I suppose.

Where are all these hard-talking members of Congress determined to "fix" the TSA on this. Gag order, anyone ?

doober

I've contacted eight MOC on this matter: King, Thompson, Lieberman, Collins, Leahy, Lautenberg, Menendez, Lance.

Only one of them, Menendez, has responded. His response was the same canned response I have received from him on other occasions.

Bearcat06

I've got multiple friends that are/were real deal Special Forces Soliders/Navy SEALS/USAF PJs.....

They say it happens more than you think....especially if they had flown military out of the Middle East.....and they are hustling to make flights home for the holidays.

My thought is I hope he doesn't get jammed up for this......while the fine folks at TSA need to be smacked good for missing it when he flew out.....as it was in the bag. Multiple open sources have stated so....no matter what TSORon might say......

WillCAD

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Forgetfulness is a form of carelessness, and carelessness with weapons and explosives can never be tollerated among professional soldiers, especially the elites. As a Green Beret, Sgt Atwater is held to much higher standards of skill, physical fitness, and endurance than an ordinary soldier, who is held to higher standards than the average civilian. He should also be held to a higher standard of professional judgment, especially when it comes to dangerous equipment and materials such as weapons and explosives.

These things are not toys, and if you forget you have them in the same bag where you put Christmas presents for your kids, you're showing an unacceptable lack of professional judgment for even an ordinary soldier, let alone a member of an elite unit like the Special Forces.

How can you trust something as dangerous as C4 to someone who forgets that he has it?

Of course, all of that is moot, as far as I'm concerned, because I'm still of the opinion that Sgt Atwater DID know he had C4 in his bag, and had taken it home intentionally to put on a demo show for his family and friends, but either didn't put on the show, or the 5 pounds discovered in his bag were just leftovers.

Combat Medic

C4 isn't dangerous. It will not explode without an initiator explosion. The battery in your laptop is more likely to explode than the C4.

Wally Bird

I considered this while trying to come up with a sensible explanation for Atwater's actions.

Active duty deployment from Ft.Bragg would be on MAC or chartered aircraft and the troops would not encounter the TSA (I assume). A bit of a stretch, but maybe he'd never flown commercial or for a while at least. No excuse; a reason perhaps.

As for the TSA at MAF, they are obviously familiar with lots of off-duty military personnel coming and going so perhaps don't give them the requisite scrutiny. Unless there's a whopping great grenade on the screen !

Read on a military board that Atwater is going to stand court martial although I'm not anticipating seeing much of the proceedings made public. Still don't buy the "I forgot" claim though.
It will burn though, and thus is not something you want on an airplane. The "I" of WEI.

Combat Medic

Your clothes will burn.
A woman's perfume will burn.

Letitride3c

^^^ +100%

Not purposely concealed - perhaps, the 5 pounds was simply camouflaged unlike the National Velvet (Security) cupcake, in plain sights ... (and promptly not allowed to be flown for fear of blowing up)

These elite Rangers, Navy Seals, and Green Berets, etc. are trained experts in the arts, including disguises & camouflages.

@:-) I can imagine dining table conversation these days as more troops assigned abroad are returning home "hey, honey - please don't forget to clean out and check all your duffle bags and carry-ons ... "

Wally Bird

The airplane will burn.

Not what I'm talking about. This is: http://community.discovery.com/eve/f...8/m/6711985839

jtodd

I can't say I ever forgot about 5 lbs of C4 in my bag, but I did happen to find a single round in my gear while unpacking after returning from overseas. It had fallen into my canteen pouch at some point, but had slipped down the side, ending up under my canteen cup. I found it while taking my web belt/harness apart and the round fell out. Keep in mind, that gear had gone through military inspection at the Kuwaiti airport to check for contraband(e.g. Iraqi national memorabilia, items, etc.).

Xyzzy

Am I missing smething? This guy was first caught with a smoke grenade. He was subsequently caught with C4. At the same time it is proposed that the military be given special priveleges as trusted travelers. If anything, this experience should tell us that everyone needs to be given the same treatment. This soldier was hardly the first to be caught with a souvenir by the TSA.

Letitride3c

- So am I and I searched & looked hard everywhere for answers ... The Executive Branch has been silent on this matter as the POTUS has been very proud of our armed forces and in bring them home from the war zones, yada - yada - yada.

The proposed legislation was promptly signed without further comments into law early this month when the President flown back from his Hawaii vacation over the holidays.

Chances are good that they are doing a little more inventory control these days - and, if some of the missing military gears or equipment accessories showed up at commercial airport checkpoints, TSA will have something to brag about a good catch (still, has nothing to do with Aviation safety or WEI) http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...80A0A620120111

WillCAD

C4 isn't dangerous? How preposterous. If it's so safe, why isn't it available in the local toy store next to the modeling clay? Um, could it be because it's an incredibly powerful explosive material?

I realize that C4 is an extremely stable explosive which requires an initiator explosion to achieve detonation. But that doesn't mean it isn't dangerous. As a combat medic, I presume that you actually HAVE seen people wounded or killed by explosions, right? And you are aware that C4 is an explosive capable of inflicting such wounds, right? Why would you even have the thought that "C4 isn't dangerous" after seeing that? My mind boggles.

Yes, it is almost impossible for C4 to explode accidentally. But that doesn't mean it's not dangerous - it's a high explosive material used for blowing stuff up. It most certainly IS dangerous.

I am not worried about accidental detonations of this material. I am worried that someone who is entrusted with this highly energetic explosive material treats it so carelessly that he forgets he even has 5 pounds of it in a bag of Christmas presents for his kids, because there are any number of criminals, wackos, and even terrorists out there who would love to get their hands on some of it. If he doesn't even know he has it, what precautions is he taking against loss or theft? To him, it's just a bag, and an empty one at that - assuming, of course, that he's truthful in his assertion that he forgot the C4 was in the bag, which I personally don't believe.

I'm also worried about the possibility that he wasn't simply being careless, but was, in fact, engaged in selling the C4 on the black market. Unlikely, I admit, but you can bet your sweet bippy the FBI is investigating that angle thoroughly.

So, to sum up: C4 don't go boom without an initiator, so it won't go boom accidentally. But C4 goes boom. C4 goes BIG BADABOOM. Which make it dangerous.