Sep 4, 2015, 8:47 am
Last edit by: beltway
This thread is now archived. For ongoing discussion and the current/updated wiki, see Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017 onward. For the archived predecessor thread, see Applying for Chase Credit Cards- Archived 2008-5/2015
Archived: Applying for Chase Credit Cards- May 2015- Jan 2017
Jun 22, 2015, 3:20 pm
#601
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
Lowering credit limits does not always lower your FICO score because sometimes you "maxed out" the benefit to your score with all the credit you have across all your cards. When you are past this high limit, then getting more credit or less credit does not matter unless it plunges you below the high limit. This is why if you have only 1 or 2 cards and start churning, getting more credit in the process, your score goes up.
I know this from personal experience and from FICO credit simulating software.
I know this from personal experience and from FICO credit simulating software.
Yet here one more real life personal experience refutes the claim.
We really dont need academic studies and armchair quarterbacks to confuse the inexperienced...
Jun 22, 2015, 3:26 pm
#602
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
You are talking MS. Brugge is talking about getting instant approval - two completely different topics.
In fact the way I see it, you and StartinSanDiego took the discussion to a tangent that does not belong here because this thread is about APPLY Chase cards and the valid techniques that would help to have a successful outcome, not about getting a high CL or maintain a high CL for MS!
In fact the way I see it, you and StartinSanDiego took the discussion to a tangent that does not belong here because this thread is about APPLY Chase cards and the valid techniques that would help to have a successful outcome, not about getting a high CL or maintain a high CL for MS!
Last edited by Happy; Jun 22, 2015 at 3:32 pm
Jun 22, 2015, 3:32 pm
#603
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
May I ask what sign up bonus on the UA Biz card you applied? The 50K bonus expired on June 2nd. Now the public offer is only 30K. Were you able to see the 50K offer popped up on UA after doing flight search?
Jun 22, 2015, 3:55 pm
#604
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 10
If your goal is to have more cards down the road without having to go thru a recon call, then YES, it is necessary. Though you do not need to do it right away.
Also note, given your cards are so new, moving lines to open more cards may NOT be an option in the next few months.
If I were you, I would do the following to prep for the situation:
First, finish your spend to earn the bonuses. After that, lower the CL in a gradual fashion, eventually to the level of either the minimum line to maintain the genre of the card, i.e. $5K for a Visa Signature, or to the level you think you would use the card for - whichever is the higher amount.
Meantime, put usage on your cards and maintain a stellar paying history (go without saying) to establish a good profile.
Then 6 months from now, get the co-branded card(s) on your list. You may very well get an instant approval or a much less involved recon call.
Also note, given your cards are so new, moving lines to open more cards may NOT be an option in the next few months.
If I were you, I would do the following to prep for the situation:
First, finish your spend to earn the bonuses. After that, lower the CL in a gradual fashion, eventually to the level of either the minimum line to maintain the genre of the card, i.e. $5K for a Visa Signature, or to the level you think you would use the card for - whichever is the higher amount.
Meantime, put usage on your cards and maintain a stellar paying history (go without saying) to establish a good profile.
Then 6 months from now, get the co-branded card(s) on your list. You may very well get an instant approval or a much less involved recon call.
I plan to use all three for bonus category spend, but haven't ruled out the possibility of MS on the Ink. I've met the min spends on CSP/Freedom, but just received the Ink today. However, meeting the minimum there won't be a problem while I'm on work-travel/vacation 9 of the next 11 weeks.
Jun 22, 2015, 4:00 pm
#605
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
I'm currently at $21K (CSP), $5K (CIP), and $3.5K (Freedom). Does 10/10/5K (respectively) sound like something they'd be inclined to do were I to call in or is it not that straightforward? In the interest of future Chase cards, are those more beneficial limits?
I plan to use all three for bonus category spend, but haven't ruled out the possibility of MS on the Ink. I've met the min spends on CSP/Freedom, but just received the Ink today. However, meeting the minimum there won't be a problem while I'm on work-travel/vacation 9 of the next 11 weeks.
I plan to use all three for bonus category spend, but haven't ruled out the possibility of MS on the Ink. I've met the min spends on CSP/Freedom, but just received the Ink today. However, meeting the minimum there won't be a problem while I'm on work-travel/vacation 9 of the next 11 weeks.
DONT reduce the CSP on the same call for reallocation. Once everything is in place to meet your needs, then you decide when to lower the remaining line on the CSP which you can either call or SM.
Keep in mind, it is very rare (though happened to me once) to move line from a biz card to a personal card while it is done all the time to move line from personal card to a biz card.
Jun 22, 2015, 4:13 pm
#606
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 10
Let your new cards season a bit, then call the Ink card CS to ask if it is possible to move credit line from the CSP to the Ink. They can do your Freedom at the same time too if the system allows the move.
DONT reduce the CSP on the same call for reallocation. Once everything is in place to meet your needs, then you decide when to lower the remaining line on the CSP which you can either call or SM.
Keep in mind, it is very rare (though happened to me once) to move line from a biz card to a personal card while it is done all the time to move line from personal card to a biz card.
DONT reduce the CSP on the same call for reallocation. Once everything is in place to meet your needs, then you decide when to lower the remaining line on the CSP which you can either call or SM.
Keep in mind, it is very rare (though happened to me once) to move line from a biz card to a personal card while it is done all the time to move line from personal card to a biz card.
Jun 22, 2015, 4:42 pm
#607
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: PetCo Pals Rewards
Posts: 531
After taking a break from this thread and coming back. I am increasingly skeptical that there is a new hard limit. It does seem that it has gotten harder to get approved for cards, and some people have been TOLD there is a limit by CSRs. But there are still people getting approved with more than 4 cards (myself included). Or see http://millionmilesecrets.com/2015/0...omment-5373599.
I'm not sure that we can rule out the fact that they tightened things up a little bit, and then we've had a lot of people quoting each other. For example all of the blogs are basically just quoting what they read on this thread. This isn't like the situation at Citi, where it is very clear what their approval policies are and length of time you must wait before approving. We just have some anecdotal evidence right now. At this point, I wouldn't stop from applying for a new card just because I had more than 4 accounts opened in the past 24 mo.
Also, I think it is really unlikely that this is targeted at churners. Churners make a small amount of their business, cost relatively little, and many even promote Chase's cards. The bigger issue for chase is people defaulting on credit card debt.
For chase, they will spend $200 to buy 40,000 points from whatever partner, and this is cost of customer acquisition. Pretty much everyone on this thread is a 'churner' to some degree, but how many are really out there? 1,000,? 10,000? On the other hand, there are lots of people who are getting into financial trouble, applying for credit cards to make ends meet, and then not paying them back. Chase is much more concerned about losing $5,000 from someone maxing out their CC and then defaulting than paying a few extra sign up bonuses. This is why it is no easier to get a 'lowly freedom card' than a CSP. Someone can default and cost Chase just as much money on the freedom card as they can on the CSP or Ink card.
Pareto's rule says that 20% of the customers are responsible for 80% of the cost. These 20% are not churners, but defaulters. (Not that churners are valuable, or that chase will make an effort to keep them, but they aren't going to be making major policies around them either).
I'm not sure that we can rule out the fact that they tightened things up a little bit, and then we've had a lot of people quoting each other. For example all of the blogs are basically just quoting what they read on this thread. This isn't like the situation at Citi, where it is very clear what their approval policies are and length of time you must wait before approving. We just have some anecdotal evidence right now. At this point, I wouldn't stop from applying for a new card just because I had more than 4 accounts opened in the past 24 mo.
Also, I think it is really unlikely that this is targeted at churners. Churners make a small amount of their business, cost relatively little, and many even promote Chase's cards. The bigger issue for chase is people defaulting on credit card debt.
For chase, they will spend $200 to buy 40,000 points from whatever partner, and this is cost of customer acquisition. Pretty much everyone on this thread is a 'churner' to some degree, but how many are really out there? 1,000,? 10,000? On the other hand, there are lots of people who are getting into financial trouble, applying for credit cards to make ends meet, and then not paying them back. Chase is much more concerned about losing $5,000 from someone maxing out their CC and then defaulting than paying a few extra sign up bonuses. This is why it is no easier to get a 'lowly freedom card' than a CSP. Someone can default and cost Chase just as much money on the freedom card as they can on the CSP or Ink card.
Pareto's rule says that 20% of the customers are responsible for 80% of the cost. These 20% are not churners, but defaulters. (Not that churners are valuable, or that chase will make an effort to keep them, but they aren't going to be making major policies around them either).
Jun 22, 2015, 5:01 pm
#608
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
After taking a break from this thread and coming back. I am increasingly skeptical that there is a new hard limit. It does seem that it has gotten harder to get approved for cards, and some people have been TOLD there is a limit by CSRs. But there are still people getting approved with more than 4 cards (myself included).
I'm not sure that we can rule out the fact that they tightened things up a little bit, and then we've had a lot of people quoting each other. For example all of the blogs are basically just quoting what they read on this thread. This isn't like the situation at Citi, where it is very clear what their approval policies are and length of time you must wait before approving. We just have some anecdotal evidence right now. At this point, I wouldn't stop from applying for a new card just because I had more than 4 accounts opened in the past 24 mo.
Also, I think it is really unlikely that this is targeted at churners. Churners make a small amount of their business, cost relatively little, and many even promote Chase's cards. The bigger issue for chase is people defaulting on credit card debt.
Jun 22, 2015, 5:10 pm
#609
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: AA, B6, UA, HH, WoH
Posts: 455
You are talking MS. Brugge is talking about getting instant approval - two completely different topics.
In fact the way I see it, you and StartinSanDiego took the discussion to a tangent that does not belong here because this thread is about APPLY Chase cards and the valid techniques that would help to have a successful outcome, not about getting a high CL or maintain a high CL for MS!
In fact the way I see it, you and StartinSanDiego took the discussion to a tangent that does not belong here because this thread is about APPLY Chase cards and the valid techniques that would help to have a successful outcome, not about getting a high CL or maintain a high CL for MS!
BTW, Happy, you just went on a 12 for 19 run in postings. And I thought Brugge was long winded.
Just kidding, guys!
Jun 22, 2015, 5:17 pm
#610
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: Multiple
Posts: 38
Chase Sapphire application was pending. Called and got declined. Reason is too many cards in the past 24 months. When asked what's "too many," they refused to give a number.
Will this affect future application? That also means it's nearly impossible to get a Sapphire card unless you don't open more than ~2 cards a year for two years.
Will this affect future application? That also means it's nearly impossible to get a Sapphire card unless you don't open more than ~2 cards a year for two years.
Jun 22, 2015, 5:55 pm
#611
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, MLife Gold, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Caesars Diamond, Amex Plat
Posts: 5,943
In answer to question number 2, yes, Southwest cards are co-branded with Southwest airlines, so that is a non-proprietary card.
For question 1: So let's just assume, based on today's data, that your ability to get duplicate Chase cards in the future is limited, and repeated sign up bonuses are not an influencing factor. No churning...
For myself, the Sapphire is of limited benefit compared to the Inks or Freedoms. If you eat out a lot, the Sapphire may suit you better, but our family does not have much restaurant spending, so that benefit is of minimal use to us. Likewise, many of the Freedom 5x categories are of limited use to us, but, for the occasional rotating categories, such as gas, grocery, and Amazon, it's fantastic. The big difference is the Freedom is FREE! No annual fee. So there will never be a quandary about whether or not you've gotten a fee waiver to entice you to hang on to it, or if you spent/will spend enough in a particular bonus category to keep it in your wallet. It can sit in your wallet forever, adding to your average age of accounts. The Sapphire will have to be evaluated yearly. That $95 is quite a bit, year after year, when the wallet is bulging with cards facing a similar evaluation. Unless you really maximize the bonus categories, you'll have to get $95 worth of benefit over and above FREE.
However, you can get the Sapphire, and, eventually, downgrade to the Freedom. That might be your best bet. Get the sign up bonus, downgrade when the annual fee kicks in, in a year.
For question 1: So let's just assume, based on today's data, that your ability to get duplicate Chase cards in the future is limited, and repeated sign up bonuses are not an influencing factor. No churning...
For myself, the Sapphire is of limited benefit compared to the Inks or Freedoms. If you eat out a lot, the Sapphire may suit you better, but our family does not have much restaurant spending, so that benefit is of minimal use to us. Likewise, many of the Freedom 5x categories are of limited use to us, but, for the occasional rotating categories, such as gas, grocery, and Amazon, it's fantastic. The big difference is the Freedom is FREE! No annual fee. So there will never be a quandary about whether or not you've gotten a fee waiver to entice you to hang on to it, or if you spent/will spend enough in a particular bonus category to keep it in your wallet. It can sit in your wallet forever, adding to your average age of accounts. The Sapphire will have to be evaluated yearly. That $95 is quite a bit, year after year, when the wallet is bulging with cards facing a similar evaluation. Unless you really maximize the bonus categories, you'll have to get $95 worth of benefit over and above FREE.
However, you can get the Sapphire, and, eventually, downgrade to the Freedom. That might be your best bet. Get the sign up bonus, downgrade when the annual fee kicks in, in a year.
Jun 22, 2015, 7:41 pm
#613
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: PetCo Pals Rewards
Posts: 531
Well that was just speculation (well, it was all speculation). I was basing it off of this little bit of their annual report, which suggests some internal concern about just using the straight FICO score.
Of course it's entirely possible that some middle manager saw numbers on churners and screamed "we have to stop this!" To me, it doesn't seem like it would be worth their effort.
Now, back to reading the tea leaves
While the borrower’s credit score is another general
indicator of credit quality, the Firm does not view credit
scores as a primary indicator of credit quality because the
borrower’s credit score tends to be a lagging indicator.
indicator of credit quality, the Firm does not view credit
scores as a primary indicator of credit quality because the
borrower’s credit score tends to be a lagging indicator.
Now, back to reading the tea leaves
Jun 22, 2015, 8:41 pm
#614
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,099
Chase Sapphire application was pending. Called and got declined. Reason is too many cards in the past 24 months. When asked what's "too many," they refused to give a number.
Will this affect future application? That also means it's nearly impossible to get a Sapphire card unless you don't open more than ~2 cards a year for two years.
Will this affect future application? That also means it's nearly impossible to get a Sapphire card unless you don't open more than ~2 cards a year for two years.
So, I would imagine if you are determined to get a Chase proprietary card like the Sapphire, you should back off of applications for a while. At least 6 months for all card apps. Perhaps in 6 months, the current denial frenzy will have passed. Or, you may have to wait until most of your apps are older than 24 months. Or, you can lay low, season the cards you've got, and see what happens when you apply again, whenever that may be.
Jun 22, 2015, 11:03 pm
#615
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, MM, NR; HH Diamond, Bonvoy LT Gold, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Diamond, others
Posts: 12,159
I just applied for Chase Freedom. No new cards in the past 2 years. Got a "call us" on the website, and email saying "we'll let you know by mail". Since the website timed out, I don't have the phone number (or application #, but they could probably find that) to call with.
I already have a bunch of Chase cards, all co-branded: Amazon, Hyatt, IHG, Marriott. Total CL $51K.
I already have a bunch of Chase cards, all co-branded: Amazon, Hyatt, IHG, Marriott. Total CL $51K.