May 15, 2014, 8:16 am
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
This thread is now archived. Please follow the topic here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase-ultimate-rewards/1986148-chase-closed-my-credit-card-account-s-tales-speculation-2019-thread.html
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:
2013.9
2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html
On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.
Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:
001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:
- Did you transfer UR points to someone with a different address? Different last name?
- Did you sell UR points to someone?
- Approximately what percentage of your charges earned less than 5x points in the past 12 months?
- Did a Chase or non-Chase bank recently close one of your credit cards?
- Are you using up a large percentage of your credit line on all Chase and non-Chase credit cards?
- Is your total credit line with Chase much higher than with other banks?
- Did you apply for many credit cards or other forms of credit in the past 2 months? ("Many" may be hard to define.)
- If you have a Chase checking account how much did you typically deposit in money orders per month, if any?
- Did you recently start spending a lot more with Chase than in typical months?
- Is your monthly balance frequently close to your credit limit?
- Approximately what percentage of spending was on gift cards this year?
- How much of your bill do you typically pay using WM or KMart bill payment if any?
- Do you have a Chase mortgage or other account that might be profitable to Chase?
- Has your credit score or credit profile changed recently? As in: significantly more debt, more open credit lines, or a large drop in your credit score?
2013.9
2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html
On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.
Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:
001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,
Chase closed my credit card account(s) [Archived 2013-mid 2019]
Mar 5, 2018, 10:08 am
#1801
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: HHonors Lifetime Diamond, UA Million Miler Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,142
Mar 5, 2018, 5:07 pm
#1802
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PWM
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 1,336
Bustout = credit seeking behavior
I opine that the bustout calculation that banks supposedly apply to its customers is little better than witchcraft. Speaking of which (note the play on words there 
), bustout shutdowns are like burning someone you suspect of being a witch. If you're right, you get rid of a witch. If you're wrong, meh. Yeah, bustouts happen. But there's no accounting for how many shutdowns stop a bustout―or abuse a customer with no such intention. Meanwhile, Chase says "meh."
), bustout shutdowns are like burning someone you suspect of being a witch. If you're right, you get rid of a witch. If you're wrong, meh. Yeah, bustouts happen. But there's no accounting for how many shutdowns stop a bustout―or abuse a customer with no such intention. Meanwhile, Chase says "meh."Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Mar 6, 2018 at 9:19 am Reason: edited quote due to redaction
Mar 6, 2018, 7:18 am
#1803
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1
I saw this post too late, all my chase credit cards were closed，expect checking account. It happened two days after I applied for the second chase card Marriott card. the reason from chase is the same as @NachoHoughton. I sent security message to chase for reinstatement my card , but USELESS. I have got only 16months credit history in US. Total 5 cards include 2 cards closed by chase.
· Not enough credit info on file
· The accounts on your credit report have not been open long enough
· Not enough credit info on file
· The accounts on your credit report have not been open long enough
- Did you transfer UR points to someone with a different address? Different last name? No
- Did you sell UR points to someone? No
- Approximately what percentage of your charges earned less than 5x points in the past 12 months? 0%
- Did a Chase or non-Chase bank recently close one of your credit cards? No
- Are you using up a large percentage of your credit line on all Chase and non-Chase credit cards? No? (30% Max.)
- Is your total credit line with Chase much higher than with other banks? Yes (my only other credit card account is with a major US bank; 2.5k+PRG charge unlimit, very good history)
- Did you apply for many credit cards or other forms of credit in the past 2 months? ("Many" may be hard to define.) 2 in total; first CSP approved (2nd Marriott card approved almost instantly)
- If you have a Chase checking account how much did you typically deposit in money orders per month, if any?NOTHING,I use ACH
- Did you recently start spending a lot more with Chase than in typical months? No
- Is your monthly balance frequently close to your credit limit? No, never
- Approximately what percentage of spending was on gift cards this year? 1%. only 20 dollor ebag gift card=》2000UR USE CSP CARD
- How much of your bill do you typically pay using WM or KMart bill payment if any? Never
- Do you have a Chase mortgage or other account that might be profitable to Chase? No
- Has your credit score or credit profile changed recently? As in: significantly more debt, more open credit lines, or a large drop in your credit score? No
Last edited by justsopp; Mar 6, 2018 at 7:57 am
Mar 7, 2018, 9:38 pm
#1804
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
I agree. We are truly powerless.
Bottom line - talk is cheap. Sue if you have a case.
Don't forget to opt out the arbitration when you open the account.
Mar 8, 2018, 12:56 pm
#1806
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PWM
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 1,336
The reality is simple - unless you have direct evidence pointing at any issuers that the account closure is based on a prohibited factor, the T&Cs pretty much gives the issuers absolute authority to do whatever they seem fit. Screaming for help from government agencies won't resolve the issue. In fact, the agencies are even more powerless than you think.
Bottom line - talk is cheap. Sue if you have a case.
Don't forget to opt out the arbitration when you open the account.
Bottom line - talk is cheap. Sue if you have a case.
Don't forget to opt out the arbitration when you open the account.
Anyways, if you had read my post you would know that I decided not to sue because I cashed the check. Even without cashing the check it would be tough to prove damages since they offered a settlement. I did actually draft a complaint for San Diego Small Claims. Waste of time. Now I only write demand letters/complaints if they're getting served!
And not all arb agreements have opt out clauses. I do agree with you that it's prudent to opt out if possible since lenders can easily remove to arb and then you're screwed.
Mar 8, 2018, 1:29 pm
#1807
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
Practically, I consider all complaint filing with the regulatory agencies is screaming, as they rarely achieve any constructive results unless the businesses act.
Anyways, if you had read my post you would know that I decided not to sue because I cashed the check. Even without cashing the check it would be tough to prove damages since they offered a settlement. I did actually draft a complaint for San Diego Small Claims. Waste of time. Now I only write demand letters/complaints if they're getting served!
1. Cashing a check, in your case, does not preclude you from filing a case. Instead, the amount in question will be taken into consideration for damage.
2. Settlement offer has nothing to do with proving the damage.
3. Service of process is not required until a formal action is taken. The demand letter can be sent via certified mail.
Actually a good news to you - some courts do find binding arbitration clause is not enforceable if they don't have an opt out opportunity.
Mar 9, 2018, 11:45 am
#1808
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: az
Posts: 32
Am I walking a fine line? After reading and watching here and there for years, I finally "figured things out" or at least enough to kick my ms into high gear. I've done 20-30k a month for the last few months. All GCs into MOs, then into bank. Multiple chase cards. Starting to use amex, citi and discover. Was wanting to ramp it up to at least 80k a month cause I really haven't had any problems, but after reading about chase closures, I'm starting to wonder if I should change something. Half of my MO deposits are done at chase branch. Should I stop that? Have I been lucky? Is it a matter of time?
I've read about people doing over 100k a month and much more. How could they do that and not get shut down, when I read about so many other people doing FAR less and getting the boot?
I've read about people doing over 100k a month and much more. How could they do that and not get shut down, when I read about so many other people doing FAR less and getting the boot?
Mar 9, 2018, 1:06 pm
#1809
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PWM
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 1,336
The reality is simple - unless you have direct evidence pointing at any issuers that the account closure is based on a prohibited factor, the T&Cs pretty much gives the issuers absolute authority to do whatever they seem fit. Screaming for help from government agencies won't resolve the issue. In fact, the agencies are even more powerless than you think.
Bottom line - talk is cheap. Sue if you have a case.
Don't forget to opt out the arbitration when you open the account.
Bottom line - talk is cheap. Sue if you have a case.
Don't forget to opt out the arbitration when you open the account.
I was not pointing at you personally. I am speaking in general.
Practically, I consider all complaint filing with the regulatory agencies is screaming, as they rarely achieve any constructive results unless the businesses act.
Again - I was not focusing on your case when I reply. But here is my some thought:
1. Cashing a check, in your case, does not preclude you from filing a case. Instead, the amount in question will be taken into consideration for damage.
2. Settlement offer has nothing to do with proving the damage.
3. Service of process is not required until a formal action is taken. The demand letter can be sent via certified mail.
Actually a good news to you - some courts do find binding arbitration clause is not enforceable if they don't have an opt out opportunity.
Practically, I consider all complaint filing with the regulatory agencies is screaming, as they rarely achieve any constructive results unless the businesses act.
Again - I was not focusing on your case when I reply. But here is my some thought:
1. Cashing a check, in your case, does not preclude you from filing a case. Instead, the amount in question will be taken into consideration for damage.
2. Settlement offer has nothing to do with proving the damage.
3. Service of process is not required until a formal action is taken. The demand letter can be sent via certified mail.
Actually a good news to you - some courts do find binding arbitration clause is not enforceable if they don't have an opt out opportunity.
1. I disagree. Accepting an offer necessarily precludes further action via claim preclusion. In my case, the actual damages were $950 and they sent me a check for $900. Sure, there's a small deficiency but it's hardly worth suing over. If they took my points and ran, I'd definitely sue.
2. While settlement offers aren't related to damages, they are related to trial. I doubt a judge would be happy to hear my points were worth $950 and the bank already offered me $900 to settle! Of course, strictly speaking, settlement offers are not admissible at trial but I'm talking small claims when anything goes.
3. I know. I always email and snail mail demand letters.
Re: arb. I didn't know that! Of course in light of Concepcion...
Mar 9, 2018, 2:04 pm
#1810
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
Am I walking a fine line? After reading and watching here and there for years, I finally "figured things out" or at least enough to kick my ms into high gear. I've done 20-30k a month for the last few months. All GCs into MOs, then into bank. Multiple chase cards. Starting to use amex, citi and discover. Was wanting to ramp it up to at least 80k a month cause I really haven't had any problems, but after reading about chase closures, I'm starting to wonder if I should change something. Half of my MO deposits are done at chase branch. Should I stop that? Have I been lucky? Is it a matter of time?
I've read about people doing over 100k a month and much more. How could they do that and not get shut down, when I read about so many other people doing FAR less and getting the boot?
I've read about people doing over 100k a month and much more. How could they do that and not get shut down, when I read about so many other people doing FAR less and getting the boot?
- Stop MS and hope you're not shut down.
- Go hog wild and MS at $100,000+ knowing the jig will be up eventually.
RNE, saying in for a penny, in for a pound.
Mar 9, 2018, 10:08 pm
#1811
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX, BUR
Programs: AS,AA,JB, HH Gold, Starriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Explorist, Global Entry
Posts: 1,933
Post a link to it
.Don't just say "I read" "I heard" "People are saying"
Mar 10, 2018, 1:15 am
#1812
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
1. I disagree. Accepting an offer necessarily precludes further action via claim preclusion. In my case, the actual damages were $950 and they sent me a check for $900. Sure, there's a small deficiency but it's hardly worth suing over. If they took my points and ran, I'd definitely sue.
2. While settlement offers aren't related to damages, they are related to trial. I doubt a judge would be happy to hear my points were worth $950 and the bank already offered me $900 to settle! Of course, strictly speaking, settlement offers are not admissible at trial but I'm talking small claims when anything goes.
I believe Concepcion focuses on class action waiver only.
Mar 10, 2018, 8:00 pm
#1813
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PWM
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 1,336
The question is if there is a validly established (settlement) agreement. A check is simply an instrument of payment. Nothing more, nothing less. For example, if you claim your own insurance and your insurance cut you a check. The check does not preclude you from claiming any further damages from your insurance, unless there is a waiver.
Again - is there a validly established settlement agreement?
I believe Concepcion focuses on class action waiver only.
Again - is there a validly established settlement agreement?
I believe Concepcion focuses on class action waiver only.
You are correct but I think that case speaks much more broadly to the enforceability of these arcane arb clauses in the context of adhesion contracts. Even if the agreement is buried in legalese, unread by most consumers, or patently unfair, it remains protected under federal law. The FAA certainly does not mandate opt out provisions!
Mar 11, 2018, 9:39 pm
#1814
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
You are correct but I think that case speaks much more broadly to the enforceability of these arcane arb clauses in the context of adhesion contracts. Even if the agreement is buried in legalese, unread by most consumers, or patently unfair, it remains protected under federal law. The FAA certainly does not mandate opt out provisions!
IME - most companies tend to adopt a litigant friendly policy when you go per se only, i.e. offering settlement proactively, refrain from arbitration unless necessary.
Mar 13, 2018, 1:14 am
#1815
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 463
Am I walking a fine line? After reading and watching here and there for years, I finally "figured things out" or at least enough to kick my ms into high gear. I've done 20-30k a month for the last few months. All GCs into MOs, then into bank. Multiple chase cards. Starting to use amex, citi and discover. Was wanting to ramp it up to at least 80k a month cause I really haven't had any problems, but after reading about chase closures, I'm starting to wonder if I should change something. Half of my MO deposits are done at chase branch. Should I stop that? Have I been lucky? Is it a matter of time?
I've read about people doing over 100k a month and much more. How could they do that and not get shut down, when I read about so many other people doing FAR less and getting the boot?
I've read about people doing over 100k a month and much more. How could they do that and not get shut down, when I read about so many other people doing FAR less and getting the boot?