tennislover9

Can you access the lounge upon arrival?

ermen

no

ph-ndr

A tangential rant from a sourpuss here. I usually don't post in the CX forum, and usually have limited experience with CX (mostly a dozen legs around BKK/HKG/SIN a year in biz).

Today was my first attempt at T4 out of Singapore. It's not really a 100% CX topic, but I found this thread.

First of all, someone working with flow of people and ergonometry cannot possibly have had a hand in the check-in/emigration/security experience in T4. What an unholy clusterfsck.

When showing up to the check-in machine I took 5 seconds extra to look at what was different here from other machines. That resulted in being assailed by two CX staff, one on each side, trying to talk me through this like I was an idiot (I may be, but I'll take that verdict from qualified health professionals, not CX staff) at roughly 100 words per minute. One of them proceeded to starting tapping all across the screen and making my choices for me. At this point I had my first implosion and in very uncertain terms told both of them them to take two steps back, clam up and speak when spoken to.

Then on to the bag drop. I found one saying "Please place bag on belt". So I did. The CX staff in the other counter in the same cubible arrangement interrupted me and told me it wasn't working. So I asked why it then said "Please place bag on belt"? The person behind the desk yanked a cable out of the machine, and now I agreed, it was dead. So I followed the directions to find another machine.

Luckily the next machine in the next cubicle over was open for service, so off I went. Bag placed on belt. The screen happily beamed "Please place bag on belt. One bag at a time" at me. Bag taken off, bag place back on belt. Nothing changed. The staff in the cubible that just sent me away sees this, and decides to dump her customer mid check-in, to go hunt for staff to help me. I'm left standing with a visibly annoyed local that had very little clue about what just happened.

Suddenly a person rushes to help me, with my newfound neighbour now looking slightly more steamy, and goes behind the counter to push some buttons and off the bag goes. If this only was the end of it.

Off to automated emigration, as I now qualify for this. The machine doesn't want to read my passport on the first four tries, another body rushes to help, and in the process decided to pull the passport out of my hands, dropping my boardingpass, lounge invitation, leftover paper from the bag tag, and assorted paperwork from the passport holder all over the carpet... '

And here is the next piece of genious: after you clear emigration and before security, there is no benches, no desks, no chairs, no nothing to get rearranged. So you arrive at security with two hands full of papers, backpack over one shoulder and trying to steal 5 seconds to use the tray to rearrange all the items to get it into the bag and not floating all over. The body manning the machine had hands on the bin before I had managed to set my backpack down, trying to instruct me to walk on. Trying to tell this person I needed 10 seconds to ararnge things and zip up some compartments was to no avail, with that person just mindlessly nagging on.

Then I spent another few minutes doing the guessing game, as my back surely got picked aside, and the person would not show me on the screen what was being looked for, but wanted to their their own random picks at what compartments to look in, insisting I had a book in my back (I didn't).

I get that autoamtion is the future and that some variety of SkyNet is our beloved future. But for the love of travel, teach the CX staff to let people actually try to observe, understand and process what is going on. A two-sided verbal assault will piss people off.

Same goes for "efficiency". Have space for people to prepare and clean up after each stage. It increases the flow of people. I know, my work is related to this stuff. Same for security, let people get 5-10 seconds to rearrange things, fi you see them approaching the security bins with hands full of items, then it doesn't take a genius to understand that getting these items in place will reduce the risk of lost items. Starting to tug their security bin as soon as they have planted their feet at their station is only increasing stress.

Also, have trolleys placed after security. Having somewhere to offload backpacks and luggage might lead to people looking more at the tax free rodeo they get gated through. Being pissed off and looking for a trolley is very seldom how I start my shopping sprees.

The lounge was nice, just past lunch is a quiet time. The accoustics here when it's full must be crap. Now off to get two glasses of Moet and calm down. Singapore T4 is now firmly on my no-fly list. Not even free flow bubbles can save this experience.

Looks like my future BKK/HKG/SIN will be dictated by who isn't flying through T4.

-A

sxc

This is also one of my pet peeves. I like to do things myself if that's what they're designed for, and I hate it when over conscientious staff come over and want to help, and end up doing it for you. I know they're trying to be nice and helpful, but some people are smart enough to "self-service" when it's meant to be self service.

ph-ndr

Another new experience. Walked by the smoking lounge on my way to the ends of the earth, first time I’ve seen a full crew, in uniform, having a go. Sitting at the gate now it turns out it’s my crew.

-A

ermen

i rather let them serve me - find it easier to go up to the counter and let them sort everything out whilst i twiddle my thumbs haha.

too old to learn the technology thing i think

percysmith

Just curious, you're a QR Plat, surely there's a manned First/DM/OWE counter you can use?

sxc

I agree if there is a counter and you want to use it. But if I have chosen to self-serve, then let me do it myself.

MKE-MR

Well, in summary, not really, no.
I have to agree with the majority of the sentiment of ph-ndr, though the details of what annoys me are slightly different. But to your point above, there was ONE counter, which is still dominated by the friendly "place your bag here" machine. After a few seconds I found a staff member, seated, almost completely blocked by the machine. That was at the next desk over, and he was on the phone assisting another pax. He was the only staff member that I could see behind a desk.

T4 problems:
- what bright bulb at Changi Airport Group thought "hey, this is the terminal for O&D passengers, let's make sure it's the ONLY one that isn't connected to transport in any reasonable way"?? Is this some secret attempt to improve the finances of Singapore's taxi and ride-sharing services? Idiotic.
- the nude-o-scope scanning machines are annoying. Enough said.
- the CT machines are nice in that you don't have to take your bags out, but approximately 5x slower than the previous setup.
- long walks, no travelators. Already mentioned.

In sum, can't think of a single IMPROVEMENT in T4 (other than perhaps the lounge, but Dnata did the trick for a quick sit and check of email anwyay). If I fly CX on my segments HKG-SIN, this will be despite the new arrangements, not because of them.

ermen

Think T4 had been designed as a small, pseudo budget LCC-esque terminal. but that probably wouldn't have made so much money and would have been a waste of prime real estate, hence they try to upscale it slightly.

But yes the lack of travellators to the "premium" gates is a bit annoying.

Last time i was there (Sunday ~2PM) there were 2 counters open for elite pax. was a bit of a queue, but then it cleared pretty quickly

Connectivity with other terminals is an issue. But how is lack of public transport an issue (apart from the MRT - which, if you are travelling with big luggage, or going to the Orchard area, is far from ideal)

MainlyMiles

For those interested in accessing other terminals we decided to test it once and for all. I checked in online for my flight, departing from T4 and printed my boarding pass.

I was not allowed to clear immigration in either T1/2/3. This was confirmed by the immigration shift manager in the operations centre that evening. However - all is not lost.

The process that is allowed by CAG and immigration is to proceed to T4, pass through immigration and security. Then proceed by airside bus to T2.

The only problem is that there is no signage - it's completely hidden - as if Changi don't want T4 passengers leaving

Here's a map of how to the find the bus ("You Are Here")





Use the lifts to go down. The security will give you this attractive T4 sticker to wear and guide you through to the arrivals hall and then onwards into a small waiting area for the bus. It comes every 7 minutes.







You will arrive in the immigration hall of T2. The Skytrain to T3 is just upstairs. The Skytrain to T1 is opposite side of the terminal but about a 5-minute walk.

On the way back, the bus is well signposted and departs from next to gate F51 in Terminal 2.

Total travel times:

T4-T2: 19 minutes
T4-T3 (via T2): 24 minutes

Return:

T3-T2: 9 minutes
T3-T4 (via T2): 19 minutes

T3 times are taken from standing outside "Charles and Keith" where, opposite, they are about to open an "Irwins"!

Our T4 review will be updated accordingly and can be found here with our Cathay Pacific T4 Lounge review here and our T4 Blossom Lounge review here

ermen

this is different from my experience the other day.
unsure if its (i) a new blanket rule now or (ii) OLCI BP

a340-313x

I think it's probably quite clear that is the issue - it was intended to be a replacement for the budget terminal that used to stand in its place...

... I guess until the operators they had in mind for it did not want to move from where they were after they had been shifted back to the main terminals for a couple of years. I'm not sure how the slightly eclectic mix of airlines operating out of T4 came about though - I guess they must have been offered very good incentives.

the above is purely my conjecture, and not fact

ph-ndr

Yes, there was signposted three bag-cubicles with an assortment of F/biz/OWE and other signs of entitlement, but they are more or less barricaded behind a row of these machines. The flow clearly wants the traveller to do as much as possible on their own, and being a techie i don't mind this. I want to test these things to see how well they are done. T4 wasn't well thought through.

-A

amxmodx

Hey MainlyMiles. Did the security escorted you through the areas as outlined?

Cause base on the diagrams I have drawn, it looks impossible to access to T1 T2 T3 while transiting in T4 via early check-in.

The T4 setup is just like Hong Kong International Airport where Arrivals and Departures are segregated, and arriving passengers with connecting flights will have their boarding passes checked before entering the departure area.

This also explains why there is no signage to access to T1 T2 T3 - That path opening is meant for arriving passengers with connecting flights coming up from the arrival level via the escalator / lifts.

I ended up chose to fly Singapore Airlines instead of Cathay Pacific because of this - T4 just feels isolated for early-bird passengers like myself
(Already booked my SQ flights for my Hong Kong Disneyland trip next year)

(P.S. The pictures were taken during my T4 Open House visit)