PGberkshire

Police action there seems rather reasonable.

However I don't think that is the case across the board. I do also have contempt for the UK public attitude to breaking rules (the influencers in Dubai really annoyed me) but Police abuse is worse.

KSVVZ2015

Showing up wit ski equipment is just laughable. Totally asking for it.

But pushing people to show documentation I feel is not within the guidance, never mind the law. No where does it say you should travel with proof of your reasonable excuse to be out of home. And while certain proof would be easy to obtain - a work letter or documentation that you were traveling to participate in a court case, what about compassionate travel? You are going to visit a dying relative - do you need to show their medical records? That would seem to be quite a bridge too far. I would hope that the people that were pushed for documentation were dubious and hadn’t presented a credible explanation with a straight face. But again, I think this is outside of the scope of what people have been told to do.

And I guess the real question is - what if someone says no, I want to go on holiday, I will take the fine. Are they arrested? Forcibly sent home? Or are they given the fine? And how does that play for foreign citizens?

KSVVZ2015

I don’t follow the influencers but I’m assuming at least some of them were there prior to the restrictions in which case there is no reason for anyone to be upset with them?

PGberkshire

Yes, you are right, some were - many many many were not.

Anyway, disgruntled and conflicted Libertarian here.

KSVVZ2015

Right there with you

corporate-wage-slave

I think you can safely assume that if you had a good reason for travel then I don't think you have anything to worry about. Anyone with an ounce of common-sense would have a company letter on them, for example. I really don't see the problem you are alluding to here, plus a lot of other European states are clamping down at the moment, to take the example of the company letter. But for the quoted section, anyone who insists would probably be arrested, but generally police officers are extremely good at making it clear what the deal is - go home and lick your wounds, or be arrested, either way you wouldn't be travelling, and in that situation only a troublemaker is going to get arrested. What changes "soon" is that responsibility will also fall on airlines to ensure travel is for permitted purposes.

It's a temporary thing, and the more people are sensible the shorter the duration.

KeaneJohn

Did you ever see the episode of Airline where people duped poor Leo into getting accepted for a flight when arriving late for a flight as thEY were on their way to a funeral but when they succeeded they admitted to the cameras on their way to security that this was not the case.

KARFA

Prior to when "lockdown 3" started the same restrictions were part of all tier 4 areas, which covered most of the country. They would have had to go out back in mid December for some of them to avoid restrictions.

I guess it is possible, in the same way that it may be possible we come out of lockdown by March if everyone follows the rules.

lcylocal

During the subsequent debate I am sure the Home Sec was about to mention Dubai when talking about influencers, but stopped herself, paused and said sunny places instead.

Farringdon

I’m interested to see what level of obligation will be placed on the airlines. The Home Sec made a big deal about carriers being responsible for checking the new written declarations. But does that just mean making sure it looks ok on its face (ie, that someone has filled in the form)? Or is there a greater duty for them to ask questions?

If the airlines can be penalised, then they’re going to be risk averse in handling these.

suley

Will be intresting to see th SI once its published, I assume they will have a webform like a PLF to fill in to leave the country and since they will be redefining the criteria, I assume work must be work and not influencers traveling as journalists.

I am intrested in what others think about my possible trip, my grand mothers unwell and dad wants us to go with him to visist her in a south asian country. I would have assumed it would come under commpasionate reasons or similar. What I am unsure about is how I would evidance this, pics of her in bed? They dont have a NHS there so not as straight forward with getting reports.

nufnuf77

If influencers make their money and pay taxes from such income in their country of tax residence who am i to judge?

corporate-wage-slave

As things stand it is the same as for visiting someone ill in this country, and somewhat restricted. You can visit to give emergency care (to anyone), or give respite care to relieve other people from providing care to your grandmother. And you can visit if it is an end of life visit, or if they are in a hospital, hospice or a care home. I don't think there is leeway to just visit someone who is ill at home, and in terms of social distancing this is very much against the underlying intent. If you had Covid-19 yourself would you visit? And if you were asymptomatic / had a false negative test result, would that change things? In terms of paperwork, I guess a letter from her doctor would be ideal, but failing that an email from a family member with contact details would probably be OK.

chriswiles

Also got to remember most are paid to promote and paid to be in photo shoots for 'cool brands' and those brands still need to arrange their campaigns.

So although it looks like they've just gone on holiday on their insta, the reason they can be there in the first place is because they receive money from brands to allow them to do that. This can therefore be displayed as work as they'll show bookings, invoices and letters from brands requiring them to be in the sun etc etc.

KARFA

I think this is a good point, and one I have thought about but don't have an answer.

Currently the law is you are allowed to leave your home to do work, "for the purposes of work..... where it is not reasonably possible for P to work....from home", and if that involves you travelling abroad then so be it. There is no additional law on top of that about being allowed to travel aboard.

For those of us in traditional professions and industries there may be an element of seeing influencers as not really work, but if it is their livelihood perhaps it is their work? Also I am sure some of us (me included) do tend to see all this social media influencer stuff as pretty valueless, but again that may be a reflection of my own prejudice. There is no mention of value of the work or whether it is "essential" in the law. Regardless of what I think of it, if they are earning a living from it perhaps it is work - perhaps some of them would think being a patent attorney is pretty valueless?

Anyway, the point is, whilst they are in the public firing line atm, it is clear that the law set down by the politicians now criticising them does not actually outlaw what they are doing. Certainly it doesn't seem appropriate atm, but illegal probably not. Perhaps what needs to happen now is the government needs to provide some clearer rules on what work reasons there can be to travel abroad, and perhaps more focused on what is really necessary. Easy to criticise them, but the fault is not all on their shoulders.