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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: serfty
Wiki Link
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Apr 22, 18, 4:39 am
  #496  
 
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May find CEDR information interesting

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...G6T2INtRxyt7yq
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Old Apr 23, 18, 9:55 am
  #497  
 
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Hi All,

Would like some advice on if I'm totally in the wrong and should accept this or if I'm in the right and should keep fighting.
so I was booked on a heathrow to Bilbao flight which had a stop in madrid. This was all booked and payed for with Iberia in business for travel on the 9th March.
Full flight details:
Depart: IB7445 British Airways 13:25h, Friday, 9 March 2018 Heathrow (LON) Terminal 5 Arrive:16:50h, Friday, 9 March 2018 Adolfo Suarez Barajas (MAD) Terminal 4S
Depart: IB434 Iberia 18:15h, Friday, 9 March 2018 Adolfo Suarez Barajas (MAD) Terminal 4 Arrive:19:15h, Friday, 9 March 2018 Bilbao Airport
My first flight was BA0460, heathrow to Madrid which was delayed due to cargo issues. The captain came over the radio saying they loaded the cargo wrong so had to change it. this lead to me missing my connecting flight. Iberia then put me on the next available flight which was due to take off at 22:10 and arrived and hour later in Bilbao. According to flightrader24 my original flight which i missed landed at 19:15 and the flight I was put on landed at 23:17. so according to me there is a 3+hr difference and loading the cargo wrong does sound like an issue for them to use. so I provided BA with all the detailed and now they have come back with this response:
Thanks for replying to my recent email about your EU compensation claim.
As previously discussed your claim’s been refused
because BA0460 on 9 March was delayed because of technical issues which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled.
I've looked at the flight details and the time you were scheduled to arrive at your destination. This was 175 minutes which is just under three hours. We don't have access to Iberian Airlines flights so we don't have the actual time you landed. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
If you can contact Iberian Airlines for proof of the actual arrival time, I'll be able to re calculate your compensation claim. I'll need a confirmation document from them. At the moment I'm working with the scheduled time of arrival.

If you would like to contact them, their details are below:

http://www.iberia.com/gb/customer-relations/
Telephone Number: 02 036 843 774(Spanish & English) 00:00 - 24:00 Lt. Monday to Sunday
Thanks for following this up with us. Please feel free to contact us if we can help you any further and I hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.

Best regards
SO I would just like to know are they right and am I wrong or should I be contacting Iberia and asking for the information about the flight times?
Any help or advice or someone saying I'm wrong would be helpful

Thanks,
N

Last edited by n4ynx; Apr 23, 18 at 9:59 am Reason: formatting
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Old Apr 23, 18, 10:18 am
  #498  
 
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Originally Posted by n4ynx View Post
SO I would just like to know are they right and am I wrong or should I be contacting Iberia and asking for the information about the flight times?
Any help or advice or someone saying I'm wrong would be helpful
My understanding that compensation is payable by the operating carrier, so BA aren't really part of the equation here, unless I'm mistaken. IB are terrible about EC621 claims, so be prepared for a bit of a battle. And feel free to point out that the delay timings are not the reported landing time, but the time at which the cabin door is opened and passengers are permitted to leave the aircraft), and the burden of proof of that time is on the airline.
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Old Apr 23, 18, 10:33 am
  #499  
 
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Originally Posted by armouredant View Post
My understanding that compensation is payable by the operating carrier, so BA aren't really part of the equation here, unless I'm mistaken. IB are terrible about EC621 claims, so be prepared for a bit of a battle. And feel free to point out that the delay timings are not the reported landing time, but the time at which the cabin door is opened and passengers are permitted to leave the aircraft), and the burden of proof of that time is on the airline.
Thanks. I thought the same however when I tried with Iberia they said they passed it onto BA. Might just go to one of the site that take 25% off your amount if they win. saves me the time of dealing with Iberia.
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Old Apr 23, 18, 11:02 am
  #500  
 
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Originally Posted by n4ynx View Post
Thanks. I thought the same however when I tried with Iberia they said they passed it onto BA. Might just go to one of the site that take 25% off your amount if they win. saves me the time of dealing with Iberia.
No, don't do that yet.

BA were the operating carrier and what they seem to be saying is that if you supply them with proof of your arrival time, at your final destination, they will re-evaluate the claim.
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Old Apr 23, 18, 11:41 am
  #501  
 
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Originally Posted by Tyzap View Post
No, don't do that yet.

BA were the operating carrier and what they seem to be saying is that if you supply them with proof of your arrival time, at your final destination, they will re-evaluate the claim.
Tyzap is correct; my mistake. BA *were* the operating carrier here, so the claim falls to them. I'd keep pushing, and bring up the point about cabin doors opening, and take it to mediation and MCOL if necessary.
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Old Apr 23, 18, 1:31 pm
  #502  
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Originally Posted by n4ynx View Post
Hi All,
SO I would just like to know are they right and am I wrong or should I be contacting Iberia and asking for the information about the flight times?
Any help or advice or someone saying I'm wrong would be helpful
My interpretation is along with the other contributors that
- BA is the operating carrier
- BA is responsible for the end to end delay, assuming one ticket
- It's not extraordinary circumstances
- You were on the IB434 with a scheduled arrival time of 19:20 hours (it may be 19:15 in your case)
- You were then (if I've understood correctly) put on IB442 which is scheduled for a BIO arrival on 23:10 but was actually 23:17
- And being over 3 hours late means they are on the hook for Article 7.
- It appears BA doesn't have visibility of your booking after you got to MAD, which being an IB ticket is understandable.

Now my reading of this is that all you need to prove - perhaps via the boarding passes - that you were on IB442, with a MAD departure time of 22:10. So unless you were crystal clear on the above to BA first time around, all BA would need is to see that you must be due 250€ per person. It takes more than 10 minutes to fly that distance. If you have flightradar24 information that is all the better.

However here is the twist: my reading is that it isn't for you to prove the timings, it's for BA to disprove it. I accept this may only add delay in settling your case. So you should try one more time with information you have, making it clear you are requesting 250€, proving the flight number you were on (you didn't mentioned it in your post, nor did BA echo IB442 in the reply) or alternatively a deadlock letter for CEDR. In BA's note they talk about the scheduled time, I wonder if they miscalculated something there. This seems a cut and dried case so CEDR should be OK for this one unless there is some factor not so far mentioned.
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Old Apr 24, 18, 2:54 am
  #503  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Apologies for posting for a non BA flight but this is the best source of knowledge of EU261 on the fourm so thought it best to post here.

My partner has just had her Flybe flight to NQY cancelled. They are arranging to bus everyone down to Newquay and are telling them it will take 7 hours.

As my partner had a meeting she needs to be at, she has decided to jump in the car and drive down to Newquay herself as it will be quicker (which obviously means she now won't use the return flight)

From looking through the regulation am I right in thinking that by doing this she will now not be entitled to EU261 compensation but instead will need to take the flight refund Flybe are offering.

Thanks in avance for your help.
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Old Apr 24, 18, 4:08 am
  #504  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post

However here is the twist: my reading is that it isn't for you to prove the timings, it's for BA to disprove it. I accept this may only add delay in settling your case. So you should try one more time with information you have, making it clear you are requesting 250€, proving the flight number you were on (you didn't mentioned it in your post, nor did BA echo IB442 in the reply) or alternatively a deadlock letter for CEDR. In BA's note they talk about the scheduled time, I wonder if they miscalculated something there. This seems a cut and dried case so CEDR should be OK for this one unless there is some factor not so far mentioned.
Thanks, I've not left anything out. I just don't get why they are saying 175min so asked for a full detailed breakdown as in previous replies ive given them all the exact flight numbers and even signed up to flightrader24 pro so I can get the landing times and I stated this yet they still say 175min delay only. oh and ive posted a pic of my boarding pass of my re-scheduled flight which they asked for yet they say its only a 175min delay.
is there anywhere that states they have to disprove the time I state, ill ask Iberia but doubt they will help.

I shall reply back again today stating it all out and see what they say.
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Old Apr 24, 18, 4:16 am
  #505  
 
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Originally Posted by craigdthomas View Post
Sorry, first time delay issue, so unsure if this will be exceptional circumstances so thought I'd ask first.

Was on BA12 (SIN-LHR) on the 15th April. Plane took off 3.5 hrs late due to not being able to locate baggage from a sick passenger that didn't board. Then had to return to gate due to a Brake Light Valve Issue, which turned out was just a computer misbehaving.
Then missed my connecting flight to Edinburgh (07:45), with the 11:40 full, so having to get the 13:05.
Arrived in Edinburgh at 14:30 when I should have arrived at 09:06.

I'll claim back my extra on car-parking charges too. Any advise would be grateful.

Cheers
Craig
Just an update, I've just had BA on the phone stating that my claim is not valid as a medical emergency and off loading bags is an extraordinary event and not eligible for time delay. Therefore the portion of time that is eligible is only 175 mins and therefore no compensation.

Any help in how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.
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Old Apr 24, 18, 5:00 am
  #506  
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Originally Posted by craigdthomas View Post
Just an update, I've just had BA on the phone stating that my claim is not valid as a medical emergency and off loading bags is an extraordinary event and not eligible for time delay. Therefore the portion of time that is eligible is only 175 mins and therefore no compensation.
I would see the baggage offloading as not extraordinary, that's inherent. And on the second part of the Extraordinary Circumstances test, fully under BA's control. Taking a bag off a flight can take 5 minutes. If you feel strongly about it, then think about asking for a CEDR deadlock agreement or MCOL. Your case would hinge on the amount of "wasted" time after the medical issue was dealt with, the time under BA's - or its contractors' - control.
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Old Apr 24, 18, 5:10 am
  #507  
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Originally Posted by n4ynx View Post
is there anywhere that states they have to disprove the time I state, ill ask Iberia but doubt they will help.

I shall reply back again today stating it all out and see what they say.
It's a general provision of the Regulation - passengers get compensation unless x, y and z, not the other way around, and it's the airline's responsibility to do this. So if (e.g) you gave a statement of truth to MCOL saying "I arrived 3 hours 47 minutes late" (or whatever it was) then it's up to BA to say "no you didn't, you arrived at hh:mm". If there is a dispute on the facts - very rare in this area - then a judge makes the decision. In this case BA either have wrong information or can't count very accurately.

Personally I would simply re-state the facts and ask BA for an agreement to deadlock for CEDR purposes.
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Old Apr 24, 18, 5:16 am
  #508  
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Originally Posted by highlandguy View Post
From looking through the regulation am I right in thinking that by doing this she will now not be entitled to EU261 compensation but instead will need to take the flight refund Flybe are offering.
Flybe are unlikely to be easy on this, but because it was a cancellation you are entitled to a refund AND Article 7 compensation of 250€, unless there was extraordinary circumstances. Article 5 on cancellation is "and, and, and", not "either / or".
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Old Apr 24, 18, 6:52 am
  #509  
 
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Originally Posted by craigdthomas View Post
Just an update, I've just had BA on the phone stating that my claim is not valid as a medical emergency and off loading bags is an extraordinary event and not eligible for time delay. Therefore the portion of time that is eligible is only 175 mins and therefore no compensation.

Any help in how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.
I see this slightly differently.

A medical emergency is an EC, and because checked baggage is not allowed to fly without the pax, the decision to off load is not within the control of the airline.

I believe that you need to separate the two events. Take any delay time caused by the medical emergency out of the equation. If you could show, that had the aircraft departed immediately following the medical emergency you would have still arrived in time to catch your original connection, it would mean that the delay was caused by the tec fault delay. BA have obviously allocated 35mins of the delay to the medical emergency and the resultant baggage off load.

BA are suggesting that the tec fault delayed you by 175mins, but that was upon the arrival at LHR, not your final destination where the delay clock stops.

There seems no doubt that you are due compensation so you could try CEDR but I would have more faith in MCOL given that it may be the only way of obtaining accurate timings. First tho I would go back to BA with a reasoned argument along these lines.

See also recent posts about ACARS.
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Old Apr 25, 18, 12:20 am
  #510  
 
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Originally Posted by Tyzap View Post
I see this slightly differently.

A medical emergency is an EC, and because checked baggage is not allowed to fly without the pax, the decision to off load is not within the control of the airline.

I believe that you need to separate the two events. Take any delay time caused by the medical emergency out of the equation. If you could show, that had the aircraft departed immediately following the medical emergency you would have still arrived in time to catch your original connection, it would mean that the delay was caused by the tec fault delay. BA have obviously allocated 35mins of the delay to the medical emergency and the resultant baggage off load.

BA are suggesting that the tec fault delayed you by 175mins, but that was upon the arrival at LHR, not your final destination where the delay clock stops.

There seems no doubt that you are due compensation so you could try CEDR but I would have more faith in MCOL given that it may be the only way of obtaining accurate timings. First tho I would go back to BA with a reasoned argument along these lines.

See also recent posts about ACARS.
Thanks for that.
The problem with the delay was the ill passenger never boarded the aircraft. The delay was in locating their baggage, which we all know is tagged and in a specific bin.All bins had to be off loaded and checked for the baggage. The flight desk updates confirm this. They were even trying to get permission to fly to LHR with the unlocated 1 bag out of 4. Don't know if that happened.
I would therefore think that the delay was caused by BA contractors not being able to locate something which they should be and should not be an extraordinary event.

I'll go back to BA and explain all this again and see what happens.

Cheers
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