May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
May 14, 2018, 7:11 am
#586
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 302
Hello Fellow Talkers,
I know this is a BA thread, but could not find any EC261 thread in the Qatar Thread, so hoping you can help or advise me on this, as I am not sure if I am owed anything.
I flew to Abu Dhabi with Qatar in November 2014 for the Formula One, however, the return Journey AUH - DOH - LHR was severely delayed, below is my flight details
I can not remember 100% what time we arrived in London, however, I know it was well over 4 hours, could have been roughly 2330 ish, however, I can not find anywhere to find out what time it actually arrived. Can someone advise me on where to get the flight details to see what time it actually arrived? Also, If I would be subject to EC261 compensation?
The reason for the delay was there was no parking at AUH for the aircraft, can fully remember the situation.
Thanks in advance
I know this is a BA thread, but could not find any EC261 thread in the Qatar Thread, so hoping you can help or advise me on this, as I am not sure if I am owed anything.
I flew to Abu Dhabi with Qatar in November 2014 for the Formula One, however, the return Journey AUH - DOH - LHR was severely delayed, below is my flight details
I can not remember 100% what time we arrived in London, however, I know it was well over 4 hours, could have been roughly 2330 ish, however, I can not find anywhere to find out what time it actually arrived. Can someone advise me on where to get the flight details to see what time it actually arrived? Also, If I would be subject to EC261 compensation?
The reason for the delay was there was no parking at AUH for the aircraft, can fully remember the situation.
Thanks in advance
May 14, 2018, 7:30 am
#587
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,830
I doubt you are going to get anything from EC261 since Qatar, unlike BA, is not a European Community Carrier and therefore regards itself out of scope of EC261 when flying into Europe. Consumer protection is highest on European airlines and that is just the way it is. Some recent legal cases have helped those passengers on ME3 airlines in the other direction, departing Europe, where connections are involved, but I don't see this helping you. If you did have a legal claim then you actually don't need to provide a time of arrival, it's up to the airline to prove you arrived at before the 2/3/4 hour deadlines. So the claim can be made without knowing the precise time, though at the risk of sounding like a broken record, it's always best to make contemporary notes and photos in these circumstance.
May 14, 2018, 7:37 am
#588
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
I flew to Abu Dhabi with Qatar in November 2014 for the Formula One, however, the return Journey AUH - DOH - LHR was severely delayed, below is my flight details
I can not remember 100% what time we arrived in London, however, I know it was well over 4 hours, could have been roughly 2330 ish, however, I can not find anywhere to find out what time it actually arrived. Can someone advise me on where to get the flight details to see what time it actually arrived?
I can not remember 100% what time we arrived in London, however, I know it was well over 4 hours, could have been roughly 2330 ish, however, I can not find anywhere to find out what time it actually arrived. Can someone advise me on where to get the flight details to see what time it actually arrived?
May 14, 2018, 7:37 am
#589
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 302
I doubt you are going to get anything from EC261 since Qatar, unlike BA, is not a European Community Carrier and therefore regards itself out of scope of EC261 when flying into Europe. Consumer protection is highest on European airlines and that is just the way it is. Some recent legal cases have helped those passengers on ME3 airlines in the other direction, departing Europe, where connections are involved, but I don't see this helping you. If you did have a legal claim then you actually don't need to provide a time of arrival, it's up to the airline to prove you arrived at before the 2/3/4 hour deadlines. So the claim can be made without knowing the precise time, though at the risk of sounding like a broken record, it's always best to make contemporary notes and photos in these circumstance.
May 14, 2018, 7:39 am
#590
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,830
For departing yes, but for arriving the protection is only on Community Carriers such as BA. See post 1 in this thread, point 3.
May 14, 2018, 7:52 am
#591
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 302
May 14, 2018, 8:17 am
#592
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,852
This is just to reiterate: QR owes you nothing for the delay under EU Reg. 261/04. For non-community carriers it is only for flights departing EU.
May 16, 2018, 9:11 am
#593
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Berks
Programs: BA, A3, Hilton, IHG
Posts: 215
My wife’s KLM flight to Heathrow has been cancelled due to a tech reason and they are offering her a LCY reroute option.
can she still claim EU261, if she takes the LCY flight she will probably land there before the 2 hrs are up. She needs to get to LHR as that’s where her Railair coach goes from.
can she still claim EU261, if she takes the LCY flight she will probably land there before the 2 hrs are up. She needs to get to LHR as that’s where her Railair coach goes from.
May 16, 2018, 3:23 pm
#594
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Programs: ►QFWP/LTG►VA WP►HyattExpl.►HiltonGold►ALL Silver
Posts: 21,995
KLM would need to provide/pay for transport LCY to LHR.
Arguably it's the time your wife eventually arrives at LHR that would be used in any delay compensation assessment.
Arguably it's the time your wife eventually arrives at LHR that would be used in any delay compensation assessment.
May 17, 2018, 12:39 am
#595
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Berks
Programs: BA, A3, Hilton, IHG
Posts: 215
Thanks - the plane ended up being diverted to Southend due to last nights fire alarm so even later / further away from her destination. She was given a leaflet about it by KLM so hopefully they will pay up promptly
May 17, 2018, 9:32 am
#596
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: North East - UK
Programs: Exec Club - Gold, HH - Diamond, Club Carlson - Gold, IHG - Spire
Posts: 39
It needs to be 3 hours late on arrival obviously but the circumstances seems to be a clear EC261 Article 7 claim to me. I would hesitate to put in a claim immediately after it has happened, it's sometimes best to leave it a week or two before submitting as explained upthread.
On this my departure was also 3 hours delayed and not the time they stated which I thought was wrong from memory.
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flig...140Z/EGLL/KPHL
I’ll be replying stating I’ll be proceeding with this regardless of their attempted reason for air traffic control causing the delay, which wasnt voiced once by the pilot. Unless advised otherwise but is appreicate anyone’s advice - thanks
Start-
Thanks for contacting us about your EU compensation claim.
Your claim’s been refused because BA0067 on 05 May 2018 was partly delayed because of airspace restrictions being in place that were outside of our control.
Your flight suffered a departure delay of 169 minutes. It then incurred a further 20 minute delay after the aircraft had left the departure gate. Once an aircraft departs it's movements are dictated by Air Traffic Control. As a result the total arrival delay was over 3 hours. I'm afraid this 20 minute delay was outside of our control.
We take all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight and we always consider if there are any operational options available before we make a decision. We’re very sorry the delay was necessary in this case.
Thanks for following this up with us and we kindly remind you to close your case on the Resolverwebsite. Please feel free to contact us if we can help you any further and I hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.
May 17, 2018, 9:44 am
#597
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,830
It's very difficult to give clear advice unless BA's timings are definitely wrong. Firstly what matter is the doors open time upon arrival, which isn't the data used by flightstats in your link. Secondly in looking at that arrival delay, if the LHR ATC time was the usual 20 to 30 minutes to get airborne then that's not extraordinary. In other words if it was 3 hours 10 minutes doors open delay, and it took 30 minutes to be airborne from gate pushback then I think you have a case, though perhaps not a strong one. If it took an hour to get airborne after pushback then you certainly don't have a case. In order to take the matter further you would need to be in a position to say that you were more than 3 hours late purely due to the technical issues. Now what you can do is a statement of truth to the best of your abilities, and use MCOL to advance the case. It feels unlikely to be a good case for CEDR, on the other hand you are more likely to see the precise workings out of the timings via CEDR, and have a better chance to react to the timings given.
May 17, 2018, 9:55 am
#598
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: North East - UK
Programs: Exec Club - Gold, HH - Diamond, Club Carlson - Gold, IHG - Spire
Posts: 39
It's very difficult to give clear advice unless BA's timings are definitely wrong. Firstly what matter is the doors open time upon arrival, which isn't the data used by flightstats in your link. Secondly in looking at that arrival delay, if the LHR ATC time was the usual 20 to 30 minutes to get airborne then that's not extraordinary. In other words if it was 3 hours 10 minutes doors open delay, and it took 30 minutes to be airborne from gate pushback then I think you have a case, though perhaps not a strong one. If it took an hour to get airborne after pushback then you certainly don't have a case. In order to take the matter further you would need to be in a position to say that you were more than 3 hours late purely due to the technical issues. Now what you can do is a statement of truth to the best of your abilities, and use MCOL to advance the case. It feels unlikely to be a good case for CEDR, on the other hand you are more likely to see the precise workings out of the timings via CEDR, and have a better chance to react to the timings given.
May 17, 2018, 9:59 am
#599
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,830
thanks for your reply. The Taxi time was ten minutes as per the stats website ( I remember we were given priority actually due to the delay) so it was in fact a lot less than your usual holding time. Is it worth going straight to MCOL rather than debating back with BA? I’m under the impression the route cause was the overfuelling, regardless of any incurred delay after as that is very much cause and effect. we actually made very good time from push back to take off, so if anything that contradicts there timings.
May 17, 2018, 11:32 am
#600
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: North East - UK
Programs: Exec Club - Gold, HH - Diamond, Club Carlson - Gold, IHG - Spire
Posts: 39
If you are reasonable sure of your facts, then yes MCOL would be a good way forward, however you need to research this carefully, understand the risks, and be prepared to go to court, since BA may well defend the case. However tick the box for arbitration, that is a telephone conference where these sorts of cases are often resolved.