May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Apr 12, 2018, 6:27 am
#436
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver
Programs: AB BA Waterloo Mama Mia
Posts: 1,147
CEDR vis a vis airline disputes has its own rules
Well the CEDR's own website says "Mediation is confidential and 'without prejudice' (nothing said in the mediation is admissible as evidence in legal proceedings)"
https://www.cedr.com/solve/mediation/
Unless you are suggesting this doesn't apply to airline cases?
https://www.cedr.com/solve/mediation/
Unless you are suggesting this doesn't apply to airline cases?
Apr 12, 2018, 6:28 am
#437
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
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Decisions made in a tribunal designed to constitute a mediation/non binding arbitration process are irrelevant to a court of first instance jurisdiction. Firstly there is no appeal from CEDR decisions and likely not even on principles or lack of natural justice. So...short answer...no I would not mention the CEDR decision if in a court proceeding because it is irrelevant and any Judge worth his/her salt would gently remind myself or my counsel once only of that fact.
They are very much relevant (not sure how they could be any more relevant!) but the judge will make his/her own mind up. The judge is fully aware it’s non binding. However losing at CEDR should prompt you to reconsider what evidence and arguments you are presenting at the very least. In legal terms don’t try the present the same case again and expect a different outcome. Find some other way to argue it or other evidence to improve your chances.
Apr 12, 2018, 8:18 am
#438
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 90
Delayed BA295 on 19th March 2018
I'm trying to understand whether EU261 compensation is due for this flight from LHR-ORD. It was scheduled to depart/arrive at 1205/1555 (local times) and actually departed/arrived at 1642/1937, an arrival delay of 3h42. No connections involved in my case. The reason given by the pilot for the late departure was the delayed inbound arrival of G-BYGC and the lack of an alternative plane.
Would be grateful for any views on this. I've read the archived thread and I think based on my reading of that, this being a category 3 flight and the delay being under 4 hours, that passengers are entitled to the €300 reduced amount of compensation.
Would be grateful for any views on this. I've read the archived thread and I think based on my reading of that, this being a category 3 flight and the delay being under 4 hours, that passengers are entitled to the €300 reduced amount of compensation.
Apr 12, 2018, 3:51 pm
#439
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
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... The thing which was new to me was what happened next:
The case was transferred to an airline-specific claims court in Liverpool, who (without my intervention) reviewed the case and instructed the airline to submit a declaration of arrival time - noting the doors-open case law - signed by the flight crew or handling agent. They had two weeks to do so or the case would be immediately struck out in my favour. That time has passed and I'm now going through the process of turning the claim into a judgement which I can enforce.
...
The case was transferred to an airline-specific claims court in Liverpool, who (without my intervention) reviewed the case and instructed the airline to submit a declaration of arrival time - noting the doors-open case law - signed by the flight crew or handling agent. They had two weeks to do so or the case would be immediately struck out in my favour. That time has passed and I'm now going through the process of turning the claim into a judgement which I can enforce.
...
Does the "airline-specific claims court in Liverpool" have a name or title?
Apr 13, 2018, 12:54 am
#440
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Increasingly rarely on a plane
Programs: Losing status by the day
Posts: 611
- The flight was at the start of October and it took about a month to get CS to deadlock.
- I raised the case via MCOL (end November).
- The airline filed a defence (just before Christmas).
- I received the directions questionnaire, which I filled in. I requested a court hearing in London and said I was open to mediation (end December).
- The airline filed a similar questionnaire, requesting a court hearing near the airline's head office and declining mediation as an option (early January).
- I was notified the case had been transferred to the county court at Liverpool (early January).
- I was copied on the letter sent by the court to the airline requesting the signed statement (mid March).
As the case is transferred, I can't now use MCOL to request judgment - but that's a small price to pay for the great service.
Apr 13, 2018, 2:12 am
#441
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: London UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 201
Hopefully a quick bit of advice here.
This was my initial claim to BA
BA 2965 (GLA - LGW) was cancelled. Lounge agent told us this was due to "fumes in the cabin". We were rebooked on BA1497 (GLA -LHR). Our car was at LGW. The scheduled arrival time for the cancelled flight was 21.15. BA 1497 landed at LHR at 22.00. We were provided with National Express vouchers at LHR. The next bus service to Gatwick was at 23.40. This took one hour, and we arrived at 00.40 We therefore suffered a delay of 3 hours 25 minutes to our destination airport of LGW I therefore claim €250 each for a delay of >2 hours and a category 1 flight for both myself and Mrs xxxx
and the perhaps predictable response from BA
Dear Mr xxxx
Thanks for getting in contact. I'm sorry for the delay in our response.
It's disappointing to hear about the problems you and Mrs xxxx had on your journey from Glasgow earlier this month. Clearly as you are a Gold member of the Executive Club, you don't expect to find your flight is cancelled, and I appreciate the problems this caused.
Unfortunately, as you accepted the offer of a flight to London Heathrow, we're unable to pay compensation as you were only delayed by 47 minutes on arrival. I understand this isn't the answer you were hoping for and I hope you have a better experience on your journey from Stockholm next month.
If there's anything else I can help you with, please don't hesitate to say.
I'm intending to use the provided link to reply thus
Thank you for your reply. As I hope you noted from my original submission my ticket was to London Gatwick ( where my car was parked) and not to London Heathrow, and I therefore did suffer a delay of greater than 2 hours to the original airport. I am not willing to let this matter rest, and continue to claim my entitlement to €250 under EC261
a) I'd appreciate any comments as regards the wording of the above, and indeed whether it is worth sending.
b) assuming an unsatisfactory response, would this be worth pursuing on the CEDR route.
Grateful as always
This was my initial claim to BA
BA 2965 (GLA - LGW) was cancelled. Lounge agent told us this was due to "fumes in the cabin". We were rebooked on BA1497 (GLA -LHR). Our car was at LGW. The scheduled arrival time for the cancelled flight was 21.15. BA 1497 landed at LHR at 22.00. We were provided with National Express vouchers at LHR. The next bus service to Gatwick was at 23.40. This took one hour, and we arrived at 00.40 We therefore suffered a delay of 3 hours 25 minutes to our destination airport of LGW I therefore claim €250 each for a delay of >2 hours and a category 1 flight for both myself and Mrs xxxx
and the perhaps predictable response from BA
Dear Mr xxxx
Thanks for getting in contact. I'm sorry for the delay in our response.
It's disappointing to hear about the problems you and Mrs xxxx had on your journey from Glasgow earlier this month. Clearly as you are a Gold member of the Executive Club, you don't expect to find your flight is cancelled, and I appreciate the problems this caused.
Unfortunately, as you accepted the offer of a flight to London Heathrow, we're unable to pay compensation as you were only delayed by 47 minutes on arrival. I understand this isn't the answer you were hoping for and I hope you have a better experience on your journey from Stockholm next month.
If there's anything else I can help you with, please don't hesitate to say.
I'm intending to use the provided link to reply thus
Thank you for your reply. As I hope you noted from my original submission my ticket was to London Gatwick ( where my car was parked) and not to London Heathrow, and I therefore did suffer a delay of greater than 2 hours to the original airport. I am not willing to let this matter rest, and continue to claim my entitlement to €250 under EC261
a) I'd appreciate any comments as regards the wording of the above, and indeed whether it is worth sending.
b) assuming an unsatisfactory response, would this be worth pursuing on the CEDR route.
Grateful as always
Apr 13, 2018, 2:37 am
#442
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Posts: 3,500
Far more polite than I would have put it.
Apr 13, 2018, 5:53 am
#443
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 8,479
Hopefully a quick bit of advice here.
This was my initial claim to BA
BA 2965 (GLA - LGW) was cancelled. Lounge agent told us this was due to "fumes in the cabin". We were rebooked on BA1497 (GLA -LHR). Our car was at LGW. The scheduled arrival time for the cancelled flight was 21.15. BA 1497 landed at LHR at 22.00. We were provided with National Express vouchers at LHR. The next bus service to Gatwick was at 23.40. This took one hour, and we arrived at 00.40 We therefore suffered a delay of 3 hours 25 minutes to our destination airport of LGW I therefore claim €250 each for a delay of >2 hours and a category 1 flight for both myself and Mrs xxxx
and the perhaps predictable response from BA
Dear Mr xxxx
Thanks for getting in contact. I'm sorry for the delay in our response.
It's disappointing to hear about the problems you and Mrs xxxx had on your journey from Glasgow earlier this month. Clearly as you are a Gold member of the Executive Club, you don't expect to find your flight is cancelled, and I appreciate the problems this caused.
Unfortunately, as you accepted the offer of a flight to London Heathrow, we're unable to pay compensation as you were only delayed by 47 minutes on arrival. I understand this isn't the answer you were hoping for and I hope you have a better experience on your journey from Stockholm next month.
If there's anything else I can help you with, please don't hesitate to say.
I'm intending to use the provided link to reply thus
Thank you for your reply. As I hope you noted from my original submission my ticket was to London Gatwick ( where my car was parked) and not to London Heathrow, and I therefore did suffer a delay of greater than 2 hours to the original airport. I am not willing to let this matter rest, and continue to claim my entitlement to €250 under EC261
a) I'd appreciate any comments as regards the wording of the above, and indeed whether it is worth sending.
b) assuming an unsatisfactory response, would this be worth pursuing on the CEDR route.
Grateful as always
This was my initial claim to BA
BA 2965 (GLA - LGW) was cancelled. Lounge agent told us this was due to "fumes in the cabin". We were rebooked on BA1497 (GLA -LHR). Our car was at LGW. The scheduled arrival time for the cancelled flight was 21.15. BA 1497 landed at LHR at 22.00. We were provided with National Express vouchers at LHR. The next bus service to Gatwick was at 23.40. This took one hour, and we arrived at 00.40 We therefore suffered a delay of 3 hours 25 minutes to our destination airport of LGW I therefore claim €250 each for a delay of >2 hours and a category 1 flight for both myself and Mrs xxxx
and the perhaps predictable response from BA
Dear Mr xxxx
Thanks for getting in contact. I'm sorry for the delay in our response.
It's disappointing to hear about the problems you and Mrs xxxx had on your journey from Glasgow earlier this month. Clearly as you are a Gold member of the Executive Club, you don't expect to find your flight is cancelled, and I appreciate the problems this caused.
Unfortunately, as you accepted the offer of a flight to London Heathrow, we're unable to pay compensation as you were only delayed by 47 minutes on arrival. I understand this isn't the answer you were hoping for and I hope you have a better experience on your journey from Stockholm next month.
If there's anything else I can help you with, please don't hesitate to say.
I'm intending to use the provided link to reply thus
Thank you for your reply. As I hope you noted from my original submission my ticket was to London Gatwick ( where my car was parked) and not to London Heathrow, and I therefore did suffer a delay of greater than 2 hours to the original airport. I am not willing to let this matter rest, and continue to claim my entitlement to €250 under EC261
a) I'd appreciate any comments as regards the wording of the above, and indeed whether it is worth sending.
b) assuming an unsatisfactory response, would this be worth pursuing on the CEDR route.
Grateful as always
I think I'd be inclined to go full legal rather than CEDR on this one. BA will argue that they delivered you to a London area airport within the allowable time, and that it was a voluntary re-route. There is a reasonable chance the CEDR adjudicator will accept this argument, even though it's a very loose interpretation of the law to say the least. A judge, IMHO, is much more likely to side with you.
If you had to buy food given the length of delay, I'd be claiming for that as well under duty of care.
Apr 13, 2018, 6:56 am
#444
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Agreed, 14 days notice and file MCOL without further delay.
Apr 16, 2018, 7:59 am
#445
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Programs: Mucci Grandee (Upgraded), BA Silver, AZ MilleMiglia
Posts: 3,107
EC261/2004 compensation for delay of over 3 hours, if I don't actually travel on the delayed flight?
Sorry if I've missed it above or in c-w-s's excellent guide at the top, but am I entitled to compensation if my flight is delayed by 4 hours and as a result I decide to book another flight?
This happened to me a while ago, and the details are a bit hazy in the mists of time, but I'd be interested to know whether under current rules I could get anything. I'd booked an evening flight at something like 7pm from LHR to ORY (in the days when BA operated that route). It was delayed (tech problems with aircraft) to 11pm, and as a result of the delay was rerouted to CDG (ORY has a nighttime curfew). I didn't fancy arriving home in Paris in the middle of the night so I booked and travelled on an alternative flight with (I think) AF.
Would BA be liable to pay me compensation for the 4-hour delay even though I didn't travel on the flight?
Sorry if I've missed it above or in c-w-s's excellent guide at the top, but am I entitled to compensation if my flight is delayed by 4 hours and as a result I decide to book another flight?
This happened to me a while ago, and the details are a bit hazy in the mists of time, but I'd be interested to know whether under current rules I could get anything. I'd booked an evening flight at something like 7pm from LHR to ORY (in the days when BA operated that route). It was delayed (tech problems with aircraft) to 11pm, and as a result of the delay was rerouted to CDG (ORY has a nighttime curfew). I didn't fancy arriving home in Paris in the middle of the night so I booked and travelled on an alternative flight with (I think) AF.
Would BA be liable to pay me compensation for the 4-hour delay even though I didn't travel on the flight?
Apr 16, 2018, 8:20 am
#446
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,837
You could try and see what happens, but I doubt you will get very far.
Apr 16, 2018, 8:37 am
#447
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Programs: Mucci Grandee (Upgraded), BA Silver, AZ MilleMiglia
Posts: 3,107
The tectonic plates are slowly shifting on this, but probably not enough to help you. If the flight was cancelled it would have been a different matter, but in this case it was delayed/re-routed. In that scenario you would need to have been delayed by that service or rebooked by BA on to another service. By taking yourself off the service altogether I think that makes you a former customer. You need to give BA the chance to reorganise the booking rather than acting pre-emptively. Now the bit that is changing is that if BA refuses to get you there on the day of travel / within 24 hours, or is not contactable, then you can take matters in to your own hand and probably ping BA for the cost but that doesn't appear to fit this scenario.
You could try and see what happens, but I doubt you will get very far.
You could try and see what happens, but I doubt you will get very far.
Apr 16, 2018, 3:52 pm
#448
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
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Interesting thanks. To be clear, BA didn't reorganise the booking - they just kept me booked on the flight that was delayed by 4 hours and rerouted. I didn't offload myself (I just no-showed) and they didn't offer any alternative (not clear what else they could have offered, other than buy me an AF ticket), so if I hadn't pre-emptively booked the AF flight I would definitely have arrived 4 hours late.
Apr 16, 2018, 3:57 pm
#449
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,837
Interesting thanks. To be clear, BA didn't reorganise the booking - they just kept me booked on the flight that was delayed by 4 hours and rerouted. I didn't offload myself (I just no-showed) and they didn't offer any alternative (not clear what else they could have offered, other than buy me an AF ticket), so if I hadn't pre-emptively booked the AF flight I would definitely have arrived 4 hours late.
Apr 17, 2018, 12:41 am
#450
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 60
Sorry, first time delay issue, so unsure if this will be exceptional circumstances so thought I'd ask first.
Was on BA12 (SIN-LHR) on the 15th April. Plane took off 3.5 hrs late due to not being able to locate baggage from a sick passenger that didn't board. Then had to return to gate due to a Brake Light Valve Issue, which turned out was just a computer misbehaving.
Then missed my connecting flight to Edinburgh (07:45), with the 11:40 full, so having to get the 13:05.
Arrived in Edinburgh at 14:30 when I should have arrived at 09:06.
I'll claim back my extra on car-parking charges too. Any advise would be grateful.
Cheers
Craig
Was on BA12 (SIN-LHR) on the 15th April. Plane took off 3.5 hrs late due to not being able to locate baggage from a sick passenger that didn't board. Then had to return to gate due to a Brake Light Valve Issue, which turned out was just a computer misbehaving.
Then missed my connecting flight to Edinburgh (07:45), with the 11:40 full, so having to get the 13:05.
Arrived in Edinburgh at 14:30 when I should have arrived at 09:06.
I'll claim back my extra on car-parking charges too. Any advise would be grateful.
Cheers
Craig