nrw24

rbAA: Thanks very much! If I understand correctly, from your thread, you were able to see the tentative aircraft assignment before the flight was cancelled 4 days out. Do you mind my asking if you recall where exactly you found that info specifically?

Fingers crossed you get the Art 7 and 8 compensation. BA seemed in principle to agree on the phone to may my Art 9 claim, but that was small fry in my case (only meals as I didn't need a hotel) compared with what I am hoping they will have to cough up.

sergiomillenium

I was downgraded on British Airways flight from London to Mexico from business to economy plus. At Heathrow airport I was only given 200 pound debit card for the inconvenience but for me it wasn't enough. After sending several emails claiming for more compensation BA refused and told me I should deal with Iberia because I purchased the tickets through Iberia's website for this BA flight and of course Iberia refused as well saying it was BA's problem.....This happened April 8th 2018. I filed a complaint with CEDR Aviation, an independent dispute resolution body that adjudicates disputes between passengers and subscribing airlines and airports in the United Kingdom, and thanks to them I got 493 pounds extra (equivalent in usd). I highly recommend anybody who has trouble with downgrades with british airlines to file a claim with this body. They were of great help after 5 months my problem ended well. It is important to have all the documentation and communication with the airlines and after 2 months after the flight of not getting answers you can file a claim with CEDR Aviation

corporate-wage-slave

Welcome to Flyertalk and welcome to the BA forum sergiomillenium. Thanks for sharing that experience, I'm sure it will help anyone else left in this unfortunate position. We also have a thread on EC261 in the Dashboard, where other experiences of CEDR have been shared, both positive and negative.

Downgrading is poorly handled in my view. Delays / cancellations cause fewer problems if they are clear cut, some people get their compensation within a week. The reason for the difficulty is partly due to BA having a long standing Involuntary Fare Refund process, which would apply in cases not eligible for EC261, and I get the impression that BA thinks that is good enough. In some cases it is, since it can exceed EC261's complex formula. However the people who issue that refund - under this particular system - is the ticketing agency, so a travel agent or in your case Iberia. And Iberia's customer relations aren't good in this area, if we take a charitable view. However EC261 is totally clear about this, such that it is the responsibility of the operating airline, it doesn't matter who issued the ticket.

What would be interesting is what BA said in their defence at CEDR? Why did they feel they were not responsible for the downgrade reimbursement?

sergiomillenium

When they had to deal with CEDR they said they would “gladly” give me 493£ out 3550£ I was claiming. Who knows maybe they underrefunded me, but I didn’t want to spend more time in this issue so I
took their offer

corporate-wage-slave

£3550 would seem too high. The actual formula is in the main EC261 thread, but if I assume you paid £3550 for a return flight, the EC261 compensation would be about £1000, so the reimbursement should have been around £800, taking the £200 cash card into account. However if you paid less than that, or your reservation continued past London, then the figure could be lower.

sergiomillenium

opalfruit

Hey folks.

I'm being given the run-around by BA on what, to me, seems like a slam-dunk EC261 claim.

My mother and my daughter were due to travel DUB-LHR-SEA on 11 August. They were booked on the BA827 DUB-LHR, and the BA49 LHR-SEA. Same PNR. I believe the aircraft operating the BA827 had some kind of knock-on maintenance/crew hours-based delay which had carried over from the day before, meaning the aircraft that operated this rotation was running around 2.5hrs late arriving into DUB, and consequently, arrived into LHR around 2.5hrs late. The delay was enough to mean that my family missed conformance at LHR. They were, eventually, booked on the following morning's BA53, and I, personally, had to book them a room at the Sofitel because the T5 connections staff somehow couldn't manage to do so, and instead wanted them to travel to either Reading or Gatwick for the night... but that's a different story.

So, I duly submitted an EC261 claim with BA, given that their late running BA827 meant that the aircraft arrived into LHR too late for my family to make their onward connection to SEA. Seems like a cut and dried case to me, but BA aren't having it. They're saying that they are not responsible for the delay to the BA827, but are not being specific as to who might be, and I am awaiting their call back with more detailed information. I wonder, could one of you kind folks, who have access to the data, please tell me exactly what the delay duration was to the BA827 on the 11th August, and why it occurred?

Often1

You were entitled to 75% of the base fare you paid for the LON-MEX segment. You would have to look at your e-ticket receipt to see what the amount allocated to the return segment was and then strip out taxes and fees (don't forget that you paid the premium APD on the LON departure).

For sake of argument, let's presume that the LON-MEX base fare on your ticket was GBP 900. You would then be due 75% of that or GBP 675. Less the 200 you already received, you would have been due GBP 400.

Hard to say, but BA might have agreed to pay up because you chose to accept a good deal less than you were due. Without the numbers from your e-ticket you won't know.

corporate-wage-slave

Thanks for coming back with that - I think you got a good fare there. Or rather you would have done, had it not ended up in WTP!

The calculation used by courts doesn't split the total ticket price to take account of the different fares on each direction or sector, the starting point is simply the entire fare divided by the distance affected, which in this case is 50% of the mileage. So my informal calculation would be:
Total fare £1615
Non avoidable taxes: £316 (mainly UK APD from LHR to MEX only)
Net fare: £1300 for round figures
Half for the downgraded sector: £650
75% for EC261: £488.

So the £493 figure is very close to my informal calculation of £488, and well within the range of the rather robust exchange rate variations that sterling has recently experienced. So I think I think you got the right amount out of CEDR, with the £200 card as an ex gratia gesture on top.

Thank you for sharing this information, we rarely get the full picture back from these sorts of cases, and it helps us to give advice to other people in similar positions.

corporate-wage-slave

You may see from some other recent cases that when this happens it is important to establish this at the time, since some of the key data is only visible for 2 or 3 days. So if this happens again it is best to ask in here at the time or shortly thereafter. However the "knock-on" delay - presumably mentioned by the captain on the DUB-LHR sector (?) should be your base line here. Having said that it is BA's responsibility to prove extraordinary circumstances applied, it's not your job to prove the contrary. So by all means keep pushing for compensation, knock-on delays are not extraordinary circumstances. However the fact that the hotels they offered were in Reading and Gatwick (which is normally the Hilton at LGW, Novotel at Reading, both are good hotels) is indicative of widespread irrops since those options are towards the bottom of the list. They aren't bad options necessarily, the coach service is in some ways better than some of the Hoppa options around the Heathrow estate.

travellingowl

Hi all, I am looking for some guidance. I was due to fly from ALC-LGW on 12th August on BA2633. I received a text from BA at 5am that morning saying that the flight was cancelled and to go online via MMB to rebook. Looking online in MMB nothing was offered and when I phoned BA they were closed, when they opened I just got a message that they were busy and to call back.




Since I needed to get back that day as I was working the following day I booked an Easyjet flight at a cost of £280. By the time I got to the airport I managed to speak with BA, they said there were no other flights available that day so I said I had booked my own flight and would contact them for compensation.




I received a reply from BA today offering me the EU compensation of €250 (since the flight was less than 1,500km) but they have declined any compensation for the flight I’ve booked. They have offered to refer to the refunds department to see if they can refund my original booking (it was on miles so it’s going to be a handful of miles and £15 taxes at best).




Was anyone else on this flight and what outcome did you get?




As I see it BA have failed to fulfil their obligations under EU law as they did not offer me re-routing with another carrier. I would guess that they made a late commercial decision that morning at Gatwick to cancel the Alicante flight as this would minimise their exposure to compensation as the flight was under 1,500KM




As it happened my father in law (in his seventies) was due to fly on the outbound leg of the flight I was returning on. He was already at Gatwick when they cancelled the flight and to BA’s credit they did put him in a hotel and rebook him (although he had a 30+ hour delay). In his MMB it did offer him a flight option (whereas for mine there was nothing offered).

Often1

All BA owes you is the EUR 250 for cancellation compensation. BA also owed you rebooking, but there is no requirement in EC 261/2004 that it be on another carrier. Once you take things into your own hands, the cost of the new ticket is yours. You have effectively elected a refund and are certainly due a refund of that sector's cost, little as it may be.

corporate-wage-slave

As Often1 has pointed out, BA have met their obligations, and there isn't a formalised requirement in EC261 to use alternative airlines. I suspect that will come, in due course, and informally the CAA appear to be using a "same day" test on shorthaul - in other words if BA don't rebook you the same day - even if very late on - then it's OK to book yourself. In the recent Ryanair difficulties, FR seems to have pushed this to "same day or next day" before using other airlines, after some to-and-fro with the CAA. As it happens there isn't much of a mismatch here, given the value of Avios and the easyJet fare.

If it happens again, or for anyone else affected, I would urge you to put a post on FT at the time, if you can. As it happens there were other options that day, including Iberia via MAD and empty seats on the Valencia service. Plus there was the option of taking the train to Atocha and the MAD service from there. There is usually someone around who can give you better options, but if that isn't possible, just go to the airport. Those who didn't get the notification and went to ALC were rebooked on to other services.

Tim_T

rbAA

So, if you've been following my claim regarding the cancellation of my April LAX-LHR flight due to the 787 engine issues, the CEDR arbitrator just awarded me Article 7 compensation of 600 euro, denied my Article 8 claim for a refund of half the ticket cost, and BA already paid the Article 9 compensation at the time they filed their response in the CEDR matter. The arbitrator specifically found that engine issues such as the RR Trent 1000 presented are extraordinary circumstances. However, since BA has known of this issue since at least October 2017, the arbitrator ruled that BA did not meet their burdan of proof that they took reasonable precautions to avoid these cancellations. Therefore, BA can't use the extraordinary circumstances defense in these matters.

Further, it didn't matter that I arrived in OSL at the same time as my originally scheduled arrival. The time factor is the delay in arriving at the destination of the cancelled flight, even if you make your original connection for onward flights.

Decision is attached.