May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Sep 11, 2018, 7:00 am
#1306
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I agree with the observation about the opaque and confusing way in which the post was written. I've had to read it about half a dozen times before reaching a conclusion about what I think it means.But what I think it means is that the passenger arrived about 17 hours after his originally scheduled arrival. It would have been the full 24 hours (there only being one BA flight a day to that destination) if he had not been re-routed on SK and KL, thus shaving about 7 hours off the delay.
Does this make a difference? And I do wonder whether the person looking at the claim might have been equally confused by the way that the claim was described.
Does this make a difference? And I do wonder whether the person looking at the claim might have been equally confused by the way that the claim was described.
It would be helpful if OP simply posted the facts of what he was originally booked and then rebooked. Operating carriers, origin, connection, destination, times.
Sep 11, 2018, 7:14 am
#1307
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But what I think it means is that the passenger arrived about 17 hours after his originally scheduled arrival. It would have been the full 24 hours (there only being one BA flight a day to that destination) if he had not been re-routed on SK and KL, thus shaving about 7 hours off the delay.
This is certainly a valid concern and indeed the BA agent may have misunderstood the claimant if he/she worded the complaint to BA in the same fashion.
Sep 11, 2018, 7:27 am
#1308
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Ok... point taken.
Connection times do not matter in this case. Everything was on a single ticket and the first flight was so severely delayed that there was no chance of making the original connection.
Original flights:
Tuesday: ARN-LHR (operated BA, marketed AY, ticketed AY) and LHR-YYC (operated BA, marketed AY, ticketed AY). Scheduled departing 15:15 and arriving 20:15 on Tuesday.
ARN-LHR was severely delayed due to a technical fault with brakes of the aircraft. BA has not claimed extraordinary circumstances.
At approximately 20:00, BA issued re-routing via AMS with SK and KL, departing Wednesday morning arriving on Wednesday at 13:25. This is 17 hours 10 minutes delayed compared to my original itinerary.
BA provided overnight accommodation and taxi transfer, and through the online claim, 25 GBP for dinner.
Had I opted to stick with BA, I would have arrived at 20:15 on Wednesday. That would have been a full 24 hours delayed. This option was never even presented by the BA ground staff (Actually, Menzies staff but anyway).
SK and KL flights were on time with their respective schedules, but compared to my original itinerary I lost a substantial amount of time due to delayed arrival. Rebooking on SK and KL clearly shaved off several hours of the delay which I am happy about.
At the time of rebooking, it was already known that ARN-LHR was delayed at least until following morning. It later became apparent that this flight would not depart before 1pm on Wednesday from ARN.
The claim for BA was obviously written with the concrete flight references through the online tool which also asks clearly for the flight numbers.
Connection times do not matter in this case. Everything was on a single ticket and the first flight was so severely delayed that there was no chance of making the original connection.
Original flights:
Tuesday: ARN-LHR (operated BA, marketed AY, ticketed AY) and LHR-YYC (operated BA, marketed AY, ticketed AY). Scheduled departing 15:15 and arriving 20:15 on Tuesday.
ARN-LHR was severely delayed due to a technical fault with brakes of the aircraft. BA has not claimed extraordinary circumstances.
At approximately 20:00, BA issued re-routing via AMS with SK and KL, departing Wednesday morning arriving on Wednesday at 13:25. This is 17 hours 10 minutes delayed compared to my original itinerary.
BA provided overnight accommodation and taxi transfer, and through the online claim, 25 GBP for dinner.
Had I opted to stick with BA, I would have arrived at 20:15 on Wednesday. That would have been a full 24 hours delayed. This option was never even presented by the BA ground staff (Actually, Menzies staff but anyway).
SK and KL flights were on time with their respective schedules, but compared to my original itinerary I lost a substantial amount of time due to delayed arrival. Rebooking on SK and KL clearly shaved off several hours of the delay which I am happy about.
At the time of rebooking, it was already known that ARN-LHR was delayed at least until following morning. It later became apparent that this flight would not depart before 1pm on Wednesday from ARN.
The claim for BA was obviously written with the concrete flight references through the online tool which also asks clearly for the flight numbers.
Sep 11, 2018, 7:29 am
#1309
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so what was your originally scheduled arrival date and time time compared to your actual arrival date and time once you had been rerouted?
what your original flights did after you were rebooked on to another carrier is completely irrelevant - you weren't on them!
what your original flights did after you were rebooked on to another carrier is completely irrelevant - you weren't on them!
Sep 11, 2018, 7:34 am
#1310
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Sep 11, 2018, 7:54 am
#1311
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Sep 11, 2018, 8:38 am
#1312
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With the new details, I do agree that this was a 17-hour delay on a Type 3 flight with no extraordinary circumstance. Accordingly, the passenger is due EUR 600 from BA. Having been rerouted, BA had the obligation, at its option to refund his ticket, rebook then or at a future date. The fact that BA was willing to rebook on other carriers and cut the delay from 24 to 17 hours is a customer service gesture, but does not alleviate its obligation to pay the compensation. The only way that this would be the case is if BA offered a reroute which would have arrived at YYC with a <3-4 hour delay and had the passenger refused it.
I would recommend sending in a renewed claim which contains the information in not one word more than 2-3 short declarative sentences. Leave out all of the fluff. At least if the claim is denied again, there is something to work form.
The passenger has also not provided a location. But, if he has a UK address and BA again denies the claim, I would start the MCOL process with a Letter Before Action (form on the MCOL site). In that complaint it is even more critical to stick to what matters.
I would recommend sending in a renewed claim which contains the information in not one word more than 2-3 short declarative sentences. Leave out all of the fluff. At least if the claim is denied again, there is something to work form.
The passenger has also not provided a location. But, if he has a UK address and BA again denies the claim, I would start the MCOL process with a Letter Before Action (form on the MCOL site). In that complaint it is even more critical to stick to what matters.
Sep 12, 2018, 2:23 pm
#1313
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1
British Airways Compensation Claim Help for Wrongfully Canceled Ticket
British Airways wrongfully canceled my return ticket and delayed my arrival to my final destination by 15 hours. They are refusing compensation.. What can I do?
I bought round trip tickets from Chicago to Vienna with a layover in London (both ways). On our outbound flight path while boarding the flight to Vienna there was a computer glitch or something that happened which made it show in the BA system that we were not on the flight. Since we did not appear to have taken that flight (we do have proof we were on the flight- boarding passes and receipts for crisps), our return flights were canceled. We did not find this out until we were at the check in desk at the Vienna airport to go home. We missed that flight, finally after haggling for 2 hours got on the next flight to London and as all the flights back to Chicago were full we had to spend the night in a Heathrow airport hotel and return the following morning. We were delayed 15 hours to our final destination.
I submitted a claim for compensation based on flight delay. BA came back to me and said they do not have to pay compensation because this is not technically a flight delay and offered me 2 100 pound vouchers for my troubles (eyeroll). I replied saying that perhaps this better falls under the "denied boarding" compensation. Denied boarding by the regulation is defined as this: a refusal to carry passengers on a flight, although they have presented themselves for boarding under the conditions laid down in Article 3(2) - which we had. I am afraid they will come back and say this is not technically a denied boarding. If they do, what can I say?
I must be entitled to some compensation for this! I know it. I think if I take them to court a judge will rule in my favor but I don't want to have to do that. Is there anything else I can try to say to the airline to get them to pay up?
Another less pressing question: If I get them to fess up and pay for denied boarding, can I make a second claim for compensation because we missed our connecting flight? Can you claim compensation twice for one itinerary?
Thank you!
I bought round trip tickets from Chicago to Vienna with a layover in London (both ways). On our outbound flight path while boarding the flight to Vienna there was a computer glitch or something that happened which made it show in the BA system that we were not on the flight. Since we did not appear to have taken that flight (we do have proof we were on the flight- boarding passes and receipts for crisps), our return flights were canceled. We did not find this out until we were at the check in desk at the Vienna airport to go home. We missed that flight, finally after haggling for 2 hours got on the next flight to London and as all the flights back to Chicago were full we had to spend the night in a Heathrow airport hotel and return the following morning. We were delayed 15 hours to our final destination.
I submitted a claim for compensation based on flight delay. BA came back to me and said they do not have to pay compensation because this is not technically a flight delay and offered me 2 100 pound vouchers for my troubles (eyeroll). I replied saying that perhaps this better falls under the "denied boarding" compensation. Denied boarding by the regulation is defined as this: a refusal to carry passengers on a flight, although they have presented themselves for boarding under the conditions laid down in Article 3(2) - which we had. I am afraid they will come back and say this is not technically a denied boarding. If they do, what can I say?
I must be entitled to some compensation for this! I know it. I think if I take them to court a judge will rule in my favor but I don't want to have to do that. Is there anything else I can try to say to the airline to get them to pay up?
Another less pressing question: If I get them to fess up and pay for denied boarding, can I make a second claim for compensation because we missed our connecting flight? Can you claim compensation twice for one itinerary?
Thank you!
Sep 12, 2018, 3:36 pm
#1314
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Welcome to Flyertalk and welcome to the BA forum travelgurlz, I hope we see more of you here.
Yes, you should be pressing for IDB here. It's the same compensation, and BA can use various arguments about it, but they won't stand up in court if it got that far. Now we don't have all the details here, but I'm going to guess that you had something like an AA sector before the BA one, so (e.g.) Columbus Ohio to Chicago then London then Vienna. And I'll make the further assumption that you bought this from a USA airline such as AA or an online travel agent, though in fact BA may also have been the ticket issuer. Now AA's flights are on SABRE, BA is on Amadeus, and SABRE creates linked PNR sectors on to Amadeus to keep everyone happy. However if (e.g.) AA changed a sector from the USA to Vienna in some way (another missed flight perhaps?), you may end up with another set of PNRs on BA's Amadeus side but the original ones are broken. That worked fine on the outbound but the broken sectors self cancelled, which is a standard and automatic process, and thus deleted your return.
Hence the advice often repeated here: if you can't check in online, find out why, and if you can't find out then ring up until you do know why.
But in any event it is deemed to be BA's fault (we can probably discuss this further, but EC261 is fairly clear about operating airlines here) and so yes, I think you can claim for IDB. BA may claim you didn't have a valid ticket but of course you were not to know this. So make a formal claim for IDB, give BA 16 days to pay up, or alternatively issue a release email to go to CEDR. Keep it short and follow the guidelines up thread.
Generally you can only claim for one failure here, but with more details it may permit a second claim. Unlikely I suspect.
Yes, you should be pressing for IDB here. It's the same compensation, and BA can use various arguments about it, but they won't stand up in court if it got that far. Now we don't have all the details here, but I'm going to guess that you had something like an AA sector before the BA one, so (e.g.) Columbus Ohio to Chicago then London then Vienna. And I'll make the further assumption that you bought this from a USA airline such as AA or an online travel agent, though in fact BA may also have been the ticket issuer. Now AA's flights are on SABRE, BA is on Amadeus, and SABRE creates linked PNR sectors on to Amadeus to keep everyone happy. However if (e.g.) AA changed a sector from the USA to Vienna in some way (another missed flight perhaps?), you may end up with another set of PNRs on BA's Amadeus side but the original ones are broken. That worked fine on the outbound but the broken sectors self cancelled, which is a standard and automatic process, and thus deleted your return.
Hence the advice often repeated here: if you can't check in online, find out why, and if you can't find out then ring up until you do know why.
But in any event it is deemed to be BA's fault (we can probably discuss this further, but EC261 is fairly clear about operating airlines here) and so yes, I think you can claim for IDB. BA may claim you didn't have a valid ticket but of course you were not to know this. So make a formal claim for IDB, give BA 16 days to pay up, or alternatively issue a release email to go to CEDR. Keep it short and follow the guidelines up thread.
Generally you can only claim for one failure here, but with more details it may permit a second claim. Unlikely I suspect.
Sep 13, 2018, 8:48 am
#1315
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 20
Mixed Fleet strike cancellation
BA have decided NOT to defend my claim in court and made me an offer.
1. The offer is just for one passenger. There were four passengers in my booking. Shall I ask for x4 compensation or accept this x1 offer and raise another ticket for the rest?
2. The exchange rate they use is pathetic. Is there a standard source of exchange rate? Do I use a historic fx rate or the current one?
Thanks to everyone guiding me in my claim, especially to c-w-s and Tobias-UK.
Sep 13, 2018, 9:02 am
#1316
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Update:
BA have decided NOT to defend my claim in court and made me an offer.
1. The offer is just for one passenger. There were four passengers in my booking. Shall I ask for x4 compensation or accept this x1 offer and raise another ticket for the rest?
2. The exchange rate they use is pathetic. Is there a standard source of exchange rate? Do I use a historic fx rate or the current one?
.
BA have decided NOT to defend my claim in court and made me an offer.
1. The offer is just for one passenger. There were four passengers in my booking. Shall I ask for x4 compensation or accept this x1 offer and raise another ticket for the rest?
2. The exchange rate they use is pathetic. Is there a standard source of exchange rate? Do I use a historic fx rate or the current one?
.
Sep 13, 2018, 9:09 am
#1317
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Update:
BA have decided NOT to defend my claim in court and made me an offer.
1. The offer is just for one passenger. There were four passengers in my booking. Shall I ask for x4 compensation or accept this x1 offer and raise another ticket for the rest?
2. The exchange rate they use is pathetic. Is there a standard source of exchange rate? Do I use a historic fx rate or the current one?
Thanks to everyone guiding me in my claim, especially to c-w-s and Tobias-UK.
BA have decided NOT to defend my claim in court and made me an offer.
1. The offer is just for one passenger. There were four passengers in my booking. Shall I ask for x4 compensation or accept this x1 offer and raise another ticket for the rest?
2. The exchange rate they use is pathetic. Is there a standard source of exchange rate? Do I use a historic fx rate or the current one?
Thanks to everyone guiding me in my claim, especially to c-w-s and Tobias-UK.
Did this result from the letter before action or did you take a different path?
Sep 13, 2018, 9:54 am
#1319
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on the exchange rate in the copy of the CEDR decision in post 1234 above it states they use the ECB rate on the 1st working day of the month the decision was issued.
Sep 13, 2018, 9:56 am
#1320
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