May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Aug 17, 2018, 7:39 am
#1156
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: LHR/SEA/YVR
Programs: BAEC G/*O E
Posts: 921
First of, thanks all and CWS in particular for this thread - insanely useful. As I was reading through, I realized I must be eligible for a compensation where my type 3 flight was delayed by between 3 and 4 hours. I never claimed anything assuming only delays of 4+ hours were eligible for any comp. One delay happened this May, another almost a year ago (August 25); both were tech issues (B777). I have already submitted my claims and, honestly, not very hopeful, as it's been months since delays happened. Question I have, if BA rejects (and if I were them, I totally would, for a customer is clearly opportunistic about comp), shall I push back and continue pursuing my claim or shall I not bother (since until yesterday I didn't even know I was eligible for anything any way)?
Aug 17, 2018, 9:32 am
#1157
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,952
I will have a trip to KEF in november (from asia), and 1 week aftert we've booked (on asiamiles), we are noticed the KEF flight for the day is cancelled and we are put on the service on the next day. (we are 3 people out of 2 PNR)
I see that we are due duty of care - I am wondering if BA would pre-book us hotel or do we claim it from them after? if we get to claim from them, what's the amount that we typically get (There a OWE on each of the PNR if it makes any difference)?
I see that we are due duty of care - I am wondering if BA would pre-book us hotel or do we claim it from them after? if we get to claim from them, what's the amount that we typically get (There a OWE on each of the PNR if it makes any difference)?
Aug 17, 2018, 11:26 am
#1158
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Posts: 63,850
You may have to argue for it, given they have given more than 2 weeks notice, but the usual guideline is up to £200 per night per room, and you best sort it out yourself. You can ask at LHR to do a hotel booking for you but BA (unlike some carriers) don't put particular store on whether you do or they do it. Because of the chance of it not being paid readily, I wouldn't spend more than you would have spent had EC261 not applied. Though I think there is a good chance that MCOL would find in your favour, I'm less sure about CEDR. There is also the potential option of re-routing, either to another airline (best done in LHR); or via LCY (best done by telephone).
Aug 18, 2018, 4:16 am
#1159
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 81
BA2726
LGW-IBZ
27th July 2018
Scheduled landing time: 23:55
Actual Landing Time: Approximately 5am
BA have denied my compensation claim citing adverse weather conditions. However, plenty of other planes that evening left on time or with only an hour delay, and we were on our flight around 1h45 after scheduled take off, we then sat on the runway for 3 hours before taking off. Other flights were taking off throughout this whole period, we just didnt have a take off slot. The pilot said that he had expected to get one much more quickly than we actually did.
Am I entitled to compensation, and if so, how should I respond to BAs reply blaming bad weather?
LGW-IBZ
27th July 2018
Scheduled landing time: 23:55
Actual Landing Time: Approximately 5am
BA have denied my compensation claim citing adverse weather conditions. However, plenty of other planes that evening left on time or with only an hour delay, and we were on our flight around 1h45 after scheduled take off, we then sat on the runway for 3 hours before taking off. Other flights were taking off throughout this whole period, we just didnt have a take off slot. The pilot said that he had expected to get one much more quickly than we actually did.
Am I entitled to compensation, and if so, how should I respond to BAs reply blaming bad weather?
Aug 18, 2018, 4:36 am
#1160
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,850
BA have denied my compensation claim citing adverse weather conditions. However, plenty of other planes that evening left on time or with only an hour delay, and we were on our flight around 1h45 after scheduled take off, we then sat on the runway for 3 hours before taking off. Other flights were taking off throughout this whole period, we just didnt have a take off slot. The pilot said that he had expected to get one much more quickly than we actually did.
Weather Disruption at Heathrow - 27 July 2018
and there have also been ATC issues including staff shortages at LGW (see posts above).
I think the problem you will have is that once you are onboard and waiting to depart, it's out of BA's hands. They have every incentive to take off immediately, it will due to ATC rather than BA that there would be a delay at that point. Waiting 3 hours for a slot at that hour does seem exceptionally bad, I have to say, but if you were all set for departure then I can't see a way of putting the responsibility on BA, which is the implication of the Regulation. Your better area is why you were 1 hr 45 minutes late to board at LGW. Now that may still be out of BA's hands, moreover this aspect would need have a 3 hour delay impact at the IBZ end, which I'm not seeing from your timings.
If you take it further to MCOL or CEDR - and I have my doubts this is going to get you anywhere - then at least BA will have to prove their argument. My suspicion is that they won't find that difficult to do.
Aug 18, 2018, 6:25 am
#1161
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,990
BA2726
LGW-IBZ
27th July 2018
Scheduled landing time: 23:55
Actual Landing Time: Approximately 5am
BA have denied my compensation claim citing adverse weather conditions. However, plenty of other planes that evening left on time or with only an hour delay, and we were on our flight around 1h45 after scheduled take off, we then sat on the runway for 3 hours before taking off. Other flights were taking off throughout this whole period, we just didnt have a take off slot. The pilot said that he had expected to get one much more quickly than we actually did.
Am I entitled to compensation, and if so, how should I respond to BAs reply blaming bad weather?
LGW-IBZ
27th July 2018
Scheduled landing time: 23:55
Actual Landing Time: Approximately 5am
BA have denied my compensation claim citing adverse weather conditions. However, plenty of other planes that evening left on time or with only an hour delay, and we were on our flight around 1h45 after scheduled take off, we then sat on the runway for 3 hours before taking off. Other flights were taking off throughout this whole period, we just didnt have a take off slot. The pilot said that he had expected to get one much more quickly than we actually did.
Am I entitled to compensation, and if so, how should I respond to BAs reply blaming bad weather?
Aug 18, 2018, 10:28 am
#1162
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 81
There was bad weather around this period:
Weather Disruption at Heathrow - 27 July 2018
and there have also been ATC issues including staff shortages at LGW (see posts above).
I think the problem you will have is that once you are onboard and waiting to depart, it's out of BA's hands. They have every incentive to take off immediately, it will due to ATC rather than BA that there would be a delay at that point. Waiting 3 hours for a slot at that hour does seem exceptionally bad, I have to say, but if you were all set for departure then I can't see a way of putting the responsibility on BA, which is the implication of the Regulation. Your better area is why you were 1 hr 45 minutes late to board at LGW. Now that may still be out of BA's hands, moreover this aspect would need have a 3 hour delay impact at the IBZ end, which I'm not seeing from your timings.
If you take it further to MCOL or CEDR - and I have my doubts this is going to get you anywhere - then at least BA will have to prove their argument. My suspicion is that they won't find that difficult to do.
Weather Disruption at Heathrow - 27 July 2018
and there have also been ATC issues including staff shortages at LGW (see posts above).
I think the problem you will have is that once you are onboard and waiting to depart, it's out of BA's hands. They have every incentive to take off immediately, it will due to ATC rather than BA that there would be a delay at that point. Waiting 3 hours for a slot at that hour does seem exceptionally bad, I have to say, but if you were all set for departure then I can't see a way of putting the responsibility on BA, which is the implication of the Regulation. Your better area is why you were 1 hr 45 minutes late to board at LGW. Now that may still be out of BA's hands, moreover this aspect would need have a 3 hour delay impact at the IBZ end, which I'm not seeing from your timings.
If you take it further to MCOL or CEDR - and I have my doubts this is going to get you anywhere - then at least BA will have to prove their argument. My suspicion is that they won't find that difficult to do.
I obviously understand that conditions were not good that night, but we landed in Ibiza at the same time as another flight that was scheduled to depart several hours after us. Does the regulation mean that if weather delays a flight by an hour, that it can subsequently be 5 hours late without the airline having any culpability? Is the ATC decision outside of BAs control (why did they leave my particular plane waiting for so long for example and not give us another BA planes slot?)
Aug 18, 2018, 11:04 am
#1163
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
I am atttempting to claim compensation via CEDR for a cancelled flight due to Mixed Fleet cabin crew strikes last summer. In BA's defence to my claim, they refer to a judgement Gabb v BA which they claim found that the Mixed Fleet strike was an "extraordinary circumstance". I have never seen this case referred to before, and cannot find any record of such a ruling. Has anybody on this forum heard of this case before?
Aug 18, 2018, 11:26 am
#1164
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Programs: OneWorld Emerald/GHA Discovery Black
Posts: 552
My friend replied via the webform mentioning the suggested text about Siewert v Condor and requested a deadlock release. Alarmingly (and annoyingly), BA have replied with the following:
Thanks for getting back in touch with us about your EU compensation claim. I understand this is something you feel strongly about and Im sorry youre unhappy with our previous replies. We really want you to fly with us again and we know not resolving your complaint fully will affect the decisions you make when you need to travel in the future.
Ive had another look at your claim for compensation and Ive taken time to make sure our response is accurate and up-to-date.Im afraid our decision hasnt changed and the responses youve received about the eligibility of your EU compensation claim are correct.
As your flight BA0055 on 15 April was delayed because of aircraft damage caused during ground handling, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled, were unable to offer you any compensation. I know this isnt the answer you were hoping for and Im sorry to let you down.
Given the information we hold about your delayed, our answer wont change and were unable to respond to any further requests for compensation.
A formal letter before action has now been sent to the UK address but would it be uncharitbale to assume the Indian customer contact centre staff have carte blanche to deny claims and obfuscate as much as possible in the hope customers give up? I can only hope the letter before action prompts somebody more competent to assess the case and progress the issue.
From a technical/timeline point of view, is it best to wait the 8 weeks (from time of complaint) and start the CEDR process or just dive in after 14 days from receipt of the letter before action and go down the MCOL route? Having read the Siewert v Condor case details, I am at a total loss as to why BA are claiming "ground handling" causing damage is an extraordinary circumstance. Thanks in advance.
Thanks for getting back in touch with us about your EU compensation claim. I understand this is something you feel strongly about and Im sorry youre unhappy with our previous replies. We really want you to fly with us again and we know not resolving your complaint fully will affect the decisions you make when you need to travel in the future.
Ive had another look at your claim for compensation and Ive taken time to make sure our response is accurate and up-to-date.Im afraid our decision hasnt changed and the responses youve received about the eligibility of your EU compensation claim are correct.
As your flight BA0055 on 15 April was delayed because of aircraft damage caused during ground handling, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled, were unable to offer you any compensation. I know this isnt the answer you were hoping for and Im sorry to let you down.
Given the information we hold about your delayed, our answer wont change and were unable to respond to any further requests for compensation.
A formal letter before action has now been sent to the UK address but would it be uncharitbale to assume the Indian customer contact centre staff have carte blanche to deny claims and obfuscate as much as possible in the hope customers give up? I can only hope the letter before action prompts somebody more competent to assess the case and progress the issue.
From a technical/timeline point of view, is it best to wait the 8 weeks (from time of complaint) and start the CEDR process or just dive in after 14 days from receipt of the letter before action and go down the MCOL route? Having read the Siewert v Condor case details, I am at a total loss as to why BA are claiming "ground handling" causing damage is an extraordinary circumstance. Thanks in advance.
Aug 18, 2018, 1:23 pm
#1165
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
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I obviously understand that conditions were not good that night, but we landed in Ibiza at the same time as another flight that was scheduled to depart several hours after us. Does the regulation mean that if weather delays a flight by an hour, that it can subsequently be 5 hours late without the airline having any culpability? Is the ATC decision outside of BAs control (why did they leave my particular plane waiting for so long for example and not give us another BA planes slot?)
I imagine it was a frustrating night all round, but ATC make the decisions here, and the one thing that will speed up a slot is being marked ready to depart. In the ideal world everyone would be sent off to the lounge / cafés of LGW with a voucher and only summoned 30 minutes from the slot, however that is simply not how it works. I'd imagine the pilot was expecting a clearance to depart at any moment, and was probably just as frustrated as anyone else. The Regulation is intended to provide consumer protection over shoddy airlines practices that were (and occasionally are still) in place. It was never intended to provide compensation for events outside the airline's control. The two biggest causes of delays outside the Article 7 remit are weather and ATC, the two obviously feed off each other in many cases.
This thread is about delays caused by fog, but there is some overlap with your situation. It is an informative article, by someone who is a key practitioner in this domain.
Why are there delays in fog?
Though your flight arrived after later departures from LGW, there were plenty of people who were more delayed that evening than you, notably the 40 or so flights that were cancelled altogether. I've a sneaky feeling that if the captain of your service knew about the extent of the delay at the start of proceedings - and s/he didn't - then there would have been quite a temptation to cancel the service.
Aug 18, 2018, 1:27 pm
#1166
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,850
I have not heard of this case, and I do try to keep an ear out for this sort of thing. My speculation would be this was heard at a Small Claims track court level, so relevant but not necessarily precedent. I would ask CEDR / BA to provide more details, if you are able to get it.
Aug 18, 2018, 2:06 pm
#1167
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
I have not heard of this case, and I do try to keep an ear out for this sort of thing. My speculation would be this was heard at a Small Claims track court level, so relevant but not necessarily precedent. I would ask CEDR / BA to provide more details, if you are able to get it.
Aug 18, 2018, 2:12 pm
#1168
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,850
Thanks. I have asked if they can provide a reference as they didn't even provide a case number. I would definitely like to read the ruling given BA's previous history of twisting the interpretation of certain clauses. I will report back what I hear, as I am sure there are still quite a few interested parties regarding the strikes.
I hope you have seen the coverage of Krüsemann and Others v TUIfly GmbH in this thread and elsewhere, from point 38 and beyond.
CURIA - Documents
Aug 18, 2018, 2:23 pm
#1169
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
Thank you! I have been lurking around the forums for a few months, and would like to thank everyone for the great information on this thread. The coverage of the case you mentioned is what prompted me to give CEDR a go. I am dubious as to their impartiality after reading a previous ruling, but hope that this case will tip the balance and save me going via MCOL.
Aug 18, 2018, 11:13 pm
#1170
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 30
We were on BA0212 from Boston to LHR on Friday. Flight was delayed causing us to miss our connection to Brussels. Reason for delay was a bit murky. There was a t-storm but that was pretty much over at departure time. The first officer also mentioned something mechanical, something about paperwork due to the repairs and to top all this off they had to offload a bag. So what gives? Can anybody help out, Any chance for the eu compensation?
(Right now I am so over BA, our luggage is lost as well and on our outbound journey we had an overnight delay, BA0215 on July 20th, mechanical problems so I will be claiming that as well).
(Right now I am so over BA, our luggage is lost as well and on our outbound journey we had an overnight delay, BA0215 on July 20th, mechanical problems so I will be claiming that as well).