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The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 17, 18, 5:14 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
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Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.

Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
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Old Aug 30, 18, 5:16 pm
  #1246  
 
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rbAA: Thanks very much! If I understand correctly, from your thread, you were able to see the tentative aircraft assignment before the flight was cancelled 4 days out. Do you mind my asking if you recall where exactly you found that info specifically?

Fingers crossed you get the Art 7 and 8 compensation. BA seemed in principle to agree on the phone to may my Art 9 claim, but that was small fry in my case (only meals as I didn't need a hotel) compared with what I am hoping they will have to cough up.

Last edited by nrw24; Aug 31, 18 at 8:26 am
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Old Aug 31, 18, 2:05 pm
  #1247  
 
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I was downgraded on British Airways flight from London to Mexico from business to economy plus. At Heathrow airport I was only given 200 pound debit card for the inconvenience but for me it wasn't enough. After sending several emails claiming for more compensation BA refused and told me I should deal with Iberia because I purchased the tickets through Iberia's website for this BA flight and of course Iberia refused as well saying it was BA's problem.....This happened April 8th 2018. I filed a complaint with CEDR Aviation, an independent dispute resolution body that adjudicates disputes between passengers and subscribing airlines and airports in the United Kingdom, and thanks to them I got 493 pounds extra (equivalent in usd). I highly recommend anybody who has trouble with downgrades with british airlines to file a claim with this body. They were of great help after 5 months my problem ended well. It is important to have all the documentation and communication with the airlines and after 2 months after the flight of not getting answers you can file a claim with CEDR Aviation
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Old Aug 31, 18, 4:17 pm
  #1248  
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Welcome to Flyertalk and welcome to the BA forum sergiomillenium. Thanks for sharing that experience, I'm sure it will help anyone else left in this unfortunate position. We also have a thread on EC261 in the Dashboard, where other experiences of CEDR have been shared, both positive and negative.

Downgrading is poorly handled in my view. Delays / cancellations cause fewer problems if they are clear cut, some people get their compensation within a week. The reason for the difficulty is partly due to BA having a long standing Involuntary Fare Refund process, which would apply in cases not eligible for EC261, and I get the impression that BA thinks that is good enough. In some cases it is, since it can exceed EC261's complex formula. However the people who issue that refund - under this particular system - is the ticketing agency, so a travel agent or in your case Iberia. And Iberia's customer relations aren't good in this area, if we take a charitable view. However EC261 is totally clear about this, such that it is the responsibility of the operating airline, it doesn't matter who issued the ticket.

What would be interesting is what BA said in their defence at CEDR? Why did they feel they were not responsible for the downgrade reimbursement?
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Old Aug 31, 18, 4:31 pm
  #1249  
 
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Response of BA

When they had to deal with CEDR they said they would ďgladlyĒ give me 493£ out 3550£ I was claiming. Who knows maybe they underrefunded me, but I didnít want to spend more time in this issue so I
took their offer
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Old Aug 31, 18, 4:45 pm
  #1250  
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Originally Posted by sergiomillenium View Post
When they had to deal with CEDR they said they would “gladly” give me 493£ out 3550£ I was claiming. Who knows maybe they underrefunded me, but I didn’t want to spend more time in this issue so I
took their offer
£3550 would seem too high. The actual formula is in the main EC261 thread, but if I assume you paid £3550 for a return flight, the EC261 compensation would be about £1000, so the reimbursement should have been around £800, taking the £200 cash card into account. However if you paid less than that, or your reservation continued past London, then the figure could be lower.
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Old Aug 31, 18, 4:54 pm
  #1251  
 
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I paid 1615 pounds for the whole flight Mex Madrid economy seat and London Mexico business downgraded to economy plus. It was a promotional seat and at the time of my booking I remember clearly that the difference between economy and business for that date was between 400£ and 600£. So I went for business. I paid mexican peso so I am doing the conversion to pounds
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Old Aug 31, 18, 5:14 pm
  #1252  
 
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Hey folks.

I'm being given the run-around by BA on what, to me, seems like a slam-dunk EC261 claim.

My mother and my daughter were due to travel DUB-LHR-SEA on 11 August. They were booked on the BA827 DUB-LHR, and the BA49 LHR-SEA. Same PNR. I believe the aircraft operating the BA827 had some kind of knock-on maintenance/crew hours-based delay which had carried over from the day before, meaning the aircraft that operated this rotation was running around 2.5hrs late arriving into DUB, and consequently, arrived into LHR around 2.5hrs late. The delay was enough to mean that my family missed conformance at LHR. They were, eventually, booked on the following morning's BA53, and I, personally, had to book them a room at the Sofitel because the T5 connections staff somehow couldn't manage to do so, and instead wanted them to travel to either Reading or Gatwick for the night... but that's a different story.

So, I duly submitted an EC261 claim with BA, given that their late running BA827 meant that the aircraft arrived into LHR too late for my family to make their onward connection to SEA. Seems like a cut and dried case to me, but BA aren't having it. They're saying that they are not responsible for the delay to the BA827, but are not being specific as to who might be, and I am awaiting their call back with more detailed information. I wonder, could one of you kind folks, who have access to the data, please tell me exactly what the delay duration was to the BA827 on the 11th August, and why it occurred?
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Old Aug 31, 18, 7:07 pm
  #1253  
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You were entitled to 75% of the base fare you paid for the LON-MEX segment. You would have to look at your e-ticket receipt to see what the amount allocated to the return segment was and then strip out taxes and fees (don't forget that you paid the premium APD on the LON departure).

For sake of argument, let's presume that the LON-MEX base fare on your ticket was GBP 900. You would then be due 75% of that or GBP 675. Less the 200 you already received, you would have been due GBP 400.

Hard to say, but BA might have agreed to pay up because you chose to accept a good deal less than you were due. Without the numbers from your e-ticket you won't know.
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Old Sep 1, 18, 2:49 am
  #1254  
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Originally Posted by sergiomillenium View Post
I paid 1615 pounds for the whole flight Mex Madrid economy seat and London Mexico business downgraded to economy plus. It was a promotional seat and at the time of my booking I remember clearly that the difference between economy and business for that date was between 400£ and 600£. So I went for business. I paid mexican peso so I am doing the conversion to pounds
Thanks for coming back with that - I think you got a good fare there. Or rather you would have done, had it not ended up in WTP!

The calculation used by courts doesn't split the total ticket price to take account of the different fares on each direction or sector, the starting point is simply the entire fare divided by the distance affected, which in this case is 50% of the mileage. So my informal calculation would be:
Total fare £1615
Non avoidable taxes: £316 (mainly UK APD from LHR to MEX only)
Net fare: £1300 for round figures
Half for the downgraded sector: £650
75% for EC261: £488.

So the £493 figure is very close to my informal calculation of £488, and well within the range of the rather robust exchange rate variations that sterling has recently experienced. So I think I think you got the right amount out of CEDR, with the £200 card as an ex gratia gesture on top.

Thank you for sharing this information, we rarely get the full picture back from these sorts of cases, and it helps us to give advice to other people in similar positions.
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Old Sep 1, 18, 3:02 am
  #1255  
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Originally Posted by opalfruit View Post
. I wonder, could one of you kind folks, who have access to the data, please tell me exactly what the delay duration was to the BA827 on the 11th August, and why it occurred?
You may see from some other recent cases that when this happens it is important to establish this at the time, since some of the key data is only visible for 2 or 3 days. So if this happens again it is best to ask in here at the time or shortly thereafter. However the "knock-on" delay - presumably mentioned by the captain on the DUB-LHR sector (?) should be your base line here. Having said that it is BA's responsibility to prove extraordinary circumstances applied, it's not your job to prove the contrary. So by all means keep pushing for compensation, knock-on delays are not extraordinary circumstances. However the fact that the hotels they offered were in Reading and Gatwick (which is normally the Hilton at LGW, Novotel at Reading, both are good hotels) is indicative of widespread irrops since those options are towards the bottom of the list. They aren't bad options necessarily, the coach service is in some ways better than some of the Hoppa options around the Heathrow estate.
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Old Sep 1, 18, 10:34 am
  #1256  
 
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Flight cancellation and compensation for self booking

Hi all, I am looking for some guidance. I was due to fly from ALC-LGW on 12th August on BA2633. I received a text from BA at 5am that morning saying that the flight was cancelled and to go online via MMB to rebook. Looking online in MMB nothing was offered and when I phoned BA they were closed, when they opened I just got a message that they were busy and to call back.




Since I needed to get back that day as I was working the following day I booked an Easyjet flight at a cost of £280. By the time I got to the airport I managed to speak with BA, they said there were no other flights available that day so I said I had booked my own flight and would contact them for compensation.




I received a reply from BA today offering me the EU compensation of Ä250 (since the flight was less than 1,500km) but they have declined any compensation for the flight Iíve booked. They have offered to refer to the refunds department to see if they can refund my original booking (it was on miles so itís going to be a handful of miles and £15 taxes at best).




Was anyone else on this flight and what outcome did you get?




As I see it BA have failed to fulfil their obligations under EU law as they did not offer me re-routing with another carrier. I would guess that they made a late commercial decision that morning at Gatwick to cancel the Alicante flight as this would minimise their exposure to compensation as the flight was under 1,500KM




As it happened my father in law (in his seventies) was due to fly on the outbound leg of the flight I was returning on. He was already at Gatwick when they cancelled the flight and to BAís credit they did put him in a hotel and rebook him (although he had a 30+ hour delay). In his MMB it did offer him a flight option (whereas for mine there was nothing offered).
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Old Sep 1, 18, 11:55 am
  #1257  
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All BA owes you is the EUR 250 for cancellation compensation. BA also owed you rebooking, but there is no requirement in EC 261/2004 that it be on another carrier. Once you take things into your own hands, the cost of the new ticket is yours. You have effectively elected a refund and are certainly due a refund of that sector's cost, little as it may be.
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Old Sep 1, 18, 12:09 pm
  #1258  
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Originally Posted by travellingowl View Post
I received a reply from BA today offering me the EU compensation of €250 (since the flight was less than 1,500km) but they have declined any compensation for the flight I’ve booked. They have offered to refer to the refunds department to see if they can refund my original booking (it was on miles so it’s going to be a handful of miles and £15 taxes at best).
[snip]
As I see it BA have failed to fulfil their obligations under EU law as they did not offer me re-routing with another carrier. I would guess that they made a late commercial decision that morning at Gatwick to cancel the Alicante flight as this would minimise their exposure to compensation as the flight was under 1,500KM
As Often1 has pointed out, BA have met their obligations, and there isn't a formalised requirement in EC261 to use alternative airlines. I suspect that will come, in due course, and informally the CAA appear to be using a "same day" test on shorthaul - in other words if BA don't rebook you the same day - even if very late on - then it's OK to book yourself. In the recent Ryanair difficulties, FR seems to have pushed this to "same day or next day" before using other airlines, after some to-and-fro with the CAA. As it happens there isn't much of a mismatch here, given the value of Avios and the easyJet fare.

If it happens again, or for anyone else affected, I would urge you to put a post on FT at the time, if you can. As it happens there were other options that day, including Iberia via MAD and empty seats on the Valencia service. Plus there was the option of taking the train to Atocha and the MAD service from there. There is usually someone around who can give you better options, but if that isn't possible, just go to the airport. Those who didn't get the notification and went to ALC were rebooked on to other services.
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Old Sep 1, 18, 1:35 pm
  #1259  
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Just a quick update on two EU261

Summer 2017 cancelled BA flight due to cabin crew strike. Bott & Co have emailed today to say them have issued court papers against BA. They had said a test case was due at the end of August, anyone heard anything?

Summer 2018. Delayed AA flight booked via BA holiday, resulting in missed USA domestic connection and a subsequent downgrade. BA have refunded the fare difference, not a lot, just over £50 per person. AA have also agreed to 600EUR per person compensation. We were 4hrs 5min late so that 5min was worth 300EUR each 😎
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Old Sep 3, 18, 6:46 pm
  #1260  
 
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BA 787 engine issues

So, if you've been following my claim regarding the cancellation of my April LAX-LHR flight due to the 787 engine issues, the CEDR arbitrator just awarded me Article 7 compensation of 600 euro, denied my Article 8 claim for a refund of half the ticket cost, and BA already paid the Article 9 compensation at the time they filed their response in the CEDR matter. The arbitrator specifically found that engine issues such as the RR Trent 1000 presented are extraordinary circumstances. However, since BA has known of this issue since at least October 2017, the arbitrator ruled that BA did not meet their burdan of proof that they took reasonable precautions to avoid these cancellations. Therefore, BA can't use the extraordinary circumstances defense in these matters.

Further, it didn't matter that I arrived in OSL at the same time as my originally scheduled arrival. The time factor is the delay in arriving at the destination of the cancelled flight, even if you make your original connection for onward flights.

Decision is attached.
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