Jan 11, 2017, 7:42 am
Last edit by: KARFA
This thread focuses on experiences and reactions for the implementation of buy on board for shorthaul, mainly led by impressions taken from flying on board British Airways' shorthaul services.
An information thread exists for your questions, particularly if they are on factual matters, here:
Buy on board: Information guide for BA shorthaul economy services
If you have an opinion about the concept of Buy on Board, the right thread is:
Buy on board: Implemented on BA short haul - opinions on the concept
Photos of current BoB menu (September 2018) post #125 in information thread
An information thread exists for your questions, particularly if they are on factual matters, here:
Buy on board: Information guide for BA shorthaul economy services
If you have an opinion about the concept of Buy on Board, the right thread is:
Buy on board: Implemented on BA short haul - opinions on the concept
Photos of current BoB menu (September 2018) post #125 in information thread
Buy on board: Experiences and reactions from BA's shorthaul economy service
Jan 16, 2017, 3:25 am
#451
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
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Thanks so much for all your concerns as to my anonymity and advice to be carful. I have gone to very extensive lengths to protect this. You would be VERY surprised the lengths BA has gone to in the past to force forums to hand over posters details and the consequences that resulted in this.
All credit to you Secretsquirrel.return ^^
Jan 16, 2017, 3:31 am
#453
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,830
Thanks for the further updates Secretsquirrel.return, please keep them coming, and I'm glad that yesterday was less problematic for you. I can see the difficulties with 767s, though there aren't so many of them, I was more concerned about how A319s would cope with just 3 cabin crew, though my 3 trips on A319s so far have (unusually) all had 4 crew due to passenger numbers and that I can see can work well if the hardware and experience come together. I would like to think that the process will get easier with experience.
Just to help irregular visitors, ICCM is another word for SCCM, and means In Charge Crew Member, as opposed to Senior Cabin Crew Member. It sometimes gets confused with ICC, International Cabin Crew member, which relates to Indian / Arabic based crew, and they aren't part of this. So mostly it's Pursers who are ICCM/SCCM on Eurofleet, however on 767s and elsewhere it may be a full Cabin Service Director in that position. Whether CSD or Purser, they would wear the Silver and dark blue tie, if male, or cravat if female. On Mixed Fleet the senior crew member is always a Cabin Service Manager (CSM); London Gatwick services are under the control of a "CSM Gatwick", who are on a different contract. And I've not yet had enough coffee to spell out the BACF crew out of LCY!
Just to help irregular visitors, ICCM is another word for SCCM, and means In Charge Crew Member, as opposed to Senior Cabin Crew Member. It sometimes gets confused with ICC, International Cabin Crew member, which relates to Indian / Arabic based crew, and they aren't part of this. So mostly it's Pursers who are ICCM/SCCM on Eurofleet, however on 767s and elsewhere it may be a full Cabin Service Director in that position. Whether CSD or Purser, they would wear the Silver and dark blue tie, if male, or cravat if female. On Mixed Fleet the senior crew member is always a Cabin Service Manager (CSM); London Gatwick services are under the control of a "CSM Gatwick", who are on a different contract. And I've not yet had enough coffee to spell out the BACF crew out of LCY!
Jan 16, 2017, 3:40 am
#454
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,830
Zero BoB on this morning's 06:50 from Edinburgh as "our two machines are not working". Passengers' dissatisfaction was already high as we were bussed to a plane which was in total darkness, and then had to wait on the bus for twenty minutes until the flight crew turned up and unlocked the plane, put the lights on, etc.. Insult added to injury with the announcement that "We are sorry for our late departure due to being parked on a remote stand"
Originally Posted by BA.com
Edinburgh airport have commenced construction of additional aircraft parking stands which will take place over a period of seven months from January 2017. As a result of these works, there may be gate changes and some arriving or departing customers will require coaching between the main terminal and the aircraft.
The following flights will be impacted:
BA1454 - London to Edinburgh
BA1435 - Edinburgh to London
If you are a departing customer please allow plenty of time to get to your allocated gate. We apologise for any inconvenience during this transition period.
The following flights will be impacted:
BA1454 - London to Edinburgh
BA1435 - Edinburgh to London
If you are a departing customer please allow plenty of time to get to your allocated gate. We apologise for any inconvenience during this transition period.
Jan 16, 2017, 3:41 am
#455
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Just to help irregular visitors, ICCM is another word for SCCM, and means In Charge Crew Member, as opposed to Senior Cabin Crew Member. It sometimes gets confused with ICC, International Cabin Crew member, which relates to Indian / Arabic based crew, and they aren't part of this. So mostly it's Pursers who are ICCM/SCCM on Eurofleet, however on 767s and elsewhere it may be a full Cabin Service Director in that position. Whether CSD or Purser, they would wear the Silver and dark blue tie, if male, or cravat if female.
Many thanks again CWS
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My username is not original I have used in memory of poster somewhere else who was a true hero to many at BA .
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The information posted here are my views and opinion . They do not reflect the official view or opinion or any other individual or company.
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Last edited by Secretsquirrel.return; Jan 17, 2017 at 2:06 pm
Jan 16, 2017, 3:52 am
#457
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
I was on BA1371 from MAN-LHR this morning.
BoB was on board, but not many takers at all. I could see maybe 3/4 teas bought, no food.
Quite a few grumbles from travellers who clearly did not know until the CC announced the M&S menu.
A couple in front were about to order a glass of fizz each to celebrate a wedding anniversary trip to NY, before learning that it would set them back £s these days.
Honestly don't know what BA's SH differentiator is now. As a Silver card holder, I have to pay to choose a seat, pay for food/drinks, pay for hold baggage...
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BoB was on board, but not many takers at all. I could see maybe 3/4 teas bought, no food.
Quite a few grumbles from travellers who clearly did not know until the CC announced the M&S menu.
A couple in front were about to order a glass of fizz each to celebrate a wedding anniversary trip to NY, before learning that it would set them back £s these days.
Honestly don't know what BA's SH differentiator is now. As a Silver card holder, I have to pay to choose a seat, pay for food/drinks, pay for hold baggage...
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Well the arrival of BoB has undoubtedly brought things into sharper focus where 'differentiators' are concerned. And sometimes with surprising results.
Was chatting to a good friend earlier this morning (he is vaguely aware of FT but doesn't really follow it). Told me his boss has just asked him to help out with a project, at short notice, at an associate company in France. He lives just east of Oxford, and LHR and LTN are pretty much equidistant for him.
He is currently checking out (one-way) flight options to CDG for tomorrow (early morning departure).
With BA from LHR : cheapest is £328. ET cabin, flex plus. No lower fare types available (CE is only a little more)
With easyjet from LTN : £52
Hmm. He could go with BA for the bargain price of £328 - with absolutely no guarantee that any food & drink will be loaded/available. OR could take EZY for £52.
Which will he choose, I wonder ........
Jan 16, 2017, 3:57 am
#458
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Hopefully someone will correct me if I've got this wrong, but Tourvest is the main contractor here, not M&S. BA have an agreement with M&S to supply their food products to BA, but the overall logistics, point of sale, accountancy, stock management, is part of an agreement between BA and Tourvest. Tourvest also have the supply agreement for the drinks, hot and cold, alcohol or not, plus the tax free / Highlife Shop logistics (etc). Tourvest handle all the payment issues, presumably take their cut, and then pass the rest of the cash to BA, so that BA's involvement here is quite small in theory (the clever bit mentioned above). From a passenger perspective this should be invisible, so it's just FT uber-detail, and clearly BA must overall take responsibility for the customer experience.
If I've got that right, then Tourvest is probably in the frame, not least to get the Tourvest POS to work.
Just to complicate matters, it's another company, DHL, that is responsible for getting the products to the LHR aircraft, from a delivery perspective. So if there is no food / drink on board the finger then points to DHL.
There's a bit more about this in the Information thread.
If I've got that right, then Tourvest is probably in the frame, not least to get the Tourvest POS to work.
Just to complicate matters, it's another company, DHL, that is responsible for getting the products to the LHR aircraft, from a delivery perspective. So if there is no food / drink on board the finger then points to DHL.
There's a bit more about this in the Information thread.
Jan 16, 2017, 4:04 am
#460
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
Sounds like BA have come up with a BoB scheme that involves so many different parties & variables that they've all combined (conspired even ?!!) to produce all the benefits of a horse-designed-by-committee.
A sort of worst of all possible worlds scenario !
I wonder how other airlines manage to avoid such complications ......
A sort of worst of all possible worlds scenario !
I wonder how other airlines manage to avoid such complications ......
Jan 16, 2017, 4:10 am
#461
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: Executive Club: Gold - Flying Blue: Gold
Posts: 1,382
on longhaul some chocolate and sweet items now display in the Highlife Shop magazine. These are outside of the meal service.
BA knows that economy is entirely price lead and it's all about cheap fares. If you want more there is Club and on Longhaul World Traveller Plus, Club or First. In a market with increasingly tight margins and consumers who are able to use extensive searches to seek the lowest possible fare in moments economy really means that. It's a sad truth, but it's the way the hospitality industry is going. The products are there, for a price.
BA knows that economy is entirely price lead and it's all about cheap fares. If you want more there is Club and on Longhaul World Traveller Plus, Club or First. In a market with increasingly tight margins and consumers who are able to use extensive searches to seek the lowest possible fare in moments economy really means that. It's a sad truth, but it's the way the hospitality industry is going. The products are there, for a price.
Jan 16, 2017, 4:13 am
#462
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
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He is currently checking out (one-way) flight options to CDG for tomorrow (early morning departure).
With BA from LHR : cheapest is £328. ET cabin, flex plus. No lower fare types available (CE is only a little more)
With easyjet from LTN : £52
Hmm. He could go with BA for the bargain price of £328 - with absolutely no guarantee that any food & drink will be loaded/available. OR could take EZY for £52.
With BA from LHR : cheapest is £328. ET cabin, flex plus. No lower fare types available (CE is only a little more)
With easyjet from LTN : £52
Hmm. He could go with BA for the bargain price of £328 - with absolutely no guarantee that any food & drink will be loaded/available. OR could take EZY for £52.
Jan 16, 2017, 4:23 am
#463
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Programs: MUCCI, British Airways Executive Club Gold
Posts: 1,795
Had a poor quality sandwich last night - the bread was soggy. Remember that the products are covered by M&S' quality guarantee and liable for a refund if you are not happy with the product. This needs to be done by M&S via BA Customer Relations.
Jan 16, 2017, 4:23 am
#464
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: Executive Club: Gold - Flying Blue: Gold
Posts: 1,382
That's simply because that BA flight is nearly totally full of passengers, most of whom paid a lot less than £328 - about a third of these passengers paid £70 or less, the cheapest seat being £56. It's nearly oversold. The service after that has seats at £249. Indeed the cheapest BA flight tomorrow is from LGW for £86 as a Vueling codeshare. I appreciate this is the choice facing your colleague right now, but trying to infer anything - other than that full flights cost more money on any airline and that U2 isn't doing very well selling seats out of Luton tomorrow - would be silly. Even the plural of anecdote isn't data.
Jan 16, 2017, 4:26 am
#465
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hotels.com Gold
Posts: 576
Secretsquirrel.return a huge thank you for the detailed post and condolences to you for being stuck between some poor management decisions/implementation and the customer.
I'm particularly interested by this bit. Could you explain a little bit more. Is all of the uneaten food disposed of even if still within best-before? Just hot? Just after the return leg of a journey?
I despise food waste and am keen to learn more.
Thanks!
I despise food waste and am keen to learn more.
Thanks!