WW "airlines to go bust"
#1366
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: TPA for now. Hopefully LIS for retirement
Posts: 13,922
Sure they might get a judgment that they should be refunded, but that by itself won't pay the legal fees.
#1367
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 43,801
I don't disagree but my point was simply that if a law firm has determined that a company simply doesn't have the cash to pay the alleged damages, or other creditors have priority such that there would be nothing left by the time it got down to the level of customer refunds, they won't bother to spend the money and effort to go after it for what is owed.
Sure they might get a judgment that they should be refunded, but that by itself won't pay the legal fees.
Sure they might get a judgment that they should be refunded, but that by itself won't pay the legal fees.
#1368
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: TPA for now. Hopefully LIS for retirement
Posts: 13,922
Does anyone know, does VS have the funds to cover all refunds due and keep operating? Remember airlines cannot be down to zero cash to keep operating - they need to have a certain amount of cash cushion on hand. I am sure VS management has a cash-on-hand figure in mind below which would likely trigger administration. (Plus remember, as has been discussed upthread, they already have filed a form of bankruptcy protection in the U.S. to get on with whatever they will have to do in the U.K.) And remember that customers claiming refunds are unsecured creditors - at or near the bottom of those who will see any of what they claim they are owed.
If VS indeed has the money to pay the claims and keep operating, then why hasn't litigation commenced?
#1369
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: London
Posts: 489
Yes, that is what I am saying - if they cannot cover refunds owed AND what they need to keep operating, they are technically insolvent. Whether they are at that point I have no idea. I have read things on "the internet" (so take that with a grain of salt) arguing that they are close to being effectively insolvent which is the only reason I commented here. (Here is an example from the BBC.)
Does anyone know, does VS have the funds to cover all refunds due and keep operating? Remember airlines cannot be down to zero cash to keep operating - they need to have a certain amount of cash cushion on hand. I am sure VS management has a cash-on-hand figure in mind below which would likely trigger administration. (Plus remember, as has been discussed upthread, they already have filed a form of bankruptcy protection in the U.S. to get on with whatever they will have to do in the U.K.) And remember that customers claiming refunds are unsecured creditors - at or near the bottom of those who will see any of what they claim they are owed.
If VS indeed has the money to pay the claims and keep operating, then why hasn't litigation commenced?
Does anyone know, does VS have the funds to cover all refunds due and keep operating? Remember airlines cannot be down to zero cash to keep operating - they need to have a certain amount of cash cushion on hand. I am sure VS management has a cash-on-hand figure in mind below which would likely trigger administration. (Plus remember, as has been discussed upthread, they already have filed a form of bankruptcy protection in the U.S. to get on with whatever they will have to do in the U.K.) And remember that customers claiming refunds are unsecured creditors - at or near the bottom of those who will see any of what they claim they are owed.
If VS indeed has the money to pay the claims and keep operating, then why hasn't litigation commenced?
#1370
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Around somewhere
Programs: Gold, Some red card and some hotel cards.
Posts: 730
They recently just agreed terms to inject some new money and give some suppliers a haircut / adjust repayment terms. I wouldn't say it's a lot, but it'll maybe allow them to continue trading for the next few months. Their big issue is that their forecast probably expected a recovery in demand by the end of the year. If that doesn't materialise, then they will indeed be in trouble
I currently tell people to use the money claims route after the 7/14 day period as if they don't pay up you can escalate your claim to the high court and the sheriff's can then seize goods including aircraft to get your money. Everyone I know who does this gets paid out pretty quick as Virgin would not want it to go to court as they would lose.
Last edited by SonTech; Sep 15, 2020 at 1:39 pm
#1371
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,041
Final nail in the coffin for DY?
Wizz Air starts domestic routes in Norway with flights to Tromsø for €18
With four flights per day between Oslo and Tromsø, the low-fare airline offers the cheapest tickets
seen to a destination north of the Arctic Circle.
From November 5th, Wizz Air opens routes from Oslo Gardermoen to Bergen, Trondheim and Tromsø.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/29...mestic-market/
Wizz Air starts domestic routes in Norway with flights to Tromsø for €18
With four flights per day between Oslo and Tromsø, the low-fare airline offers the cheapest tickets
seen to a destination north of the Arctic Circle.
From November 5th, Wizz Air opens routes from Oslo Gardermoen to Bergen, Trondheim and Tromsø.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/29...mestic-market/
#1372
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bombay
Programs: EC Blue, EB Silver, FB Gold
Posts: 551
To add to DY’s misery, a Norwegian investor announced he’s launching a new carrier come March subject to securing finance. He is one of the Braathen brothers (of Braathens, the carrier gobbled up by SAS almost twenty years ago), and has assembled a team of mostly ex-DY executives. That will bring he number of carriers on Norwegian domestic routes to five, plus some niche carriers like DAT and Air Leap. We do fly a lot, but seriously?
Source: https://e24.no/naeringsliv/i/LnA551/...rsk-flyselskap (google translate should work)
Source: https://e24.no/naeringsliv/i/LnA551/...rsk-flyselskap (google translate should work)
#1373
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 3,488
Being reported today:
I wonder if this will impact BA’s decisions for LGW, especially for LGW-JFK.
Oct 9 (Reuters) - Norwegian Air is considering shutting its base at Gatwick Airport, a spokesman said on Friday, as the struggling budget airline steps up its cost-cutting drive to survive the industry's worst crisis.
#1374
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: BAEC, Ib+, Accor, HHonors
Posts: 609
(This story corrects headline and first paragraph to show airline considering Gatwick lay-offs, not closing hub)
#1376
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NQY
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 520
And come back?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54596915
"The collapsed regional airline Flybe could restart operations as soon as next year, after a former shareholder stepped in to buy its remaining assets.The airline plans to "start off smaller than before", its new owner Thyme Opco said, without giving further details."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54596915
"The collapsed regional airline Flybe could restart operations as soon as next year, after a former shareholder stepped in to buy its remaining assets.The airline plans to "start off smaller than before", its new owner Thyme Opco said, without giving further details."
#1377
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,751
Think they really need to change the brand. Flybe had become well and truly toxic long before its demise. Perhaps a return to BEA? Or British European at least?
#1378
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lincoln, England
Programs: BAEC Silver, HHonors Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Silver
Posts: 259
BBC reporting Cathay Dragon closing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54625997
#1379
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DEL
Programs: Mucci du Miel d'Or
Posts: 2,393
BBC reporting Cathay Dragon closing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54625997
Also means we will see more CX here in DAC.
#1380
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: BA Gold, VS Silver
Posts: 401
I understood that Dragon had a stronger brand in China and there were some historic sensitivities around the extent of CX's coverage in China, but can see those sensitivities will have gone/reduced in light of recent developments.
Also means we will see more CX here in DAC.
Also means we will see more CX here in DAC.