Crying baby in club world??
May 28, 2012, 9:49 pm
#61
Join Date: May 2009
Location: USA
Programs: BA-Gold (dropping to Silver soon); AA & Flying Blue; Top Gear (the Clarkson years); Doctor Who :)
Posts: 422
I actually do think this is a BA issue. The whole purpose of premium cabins is rest, and if they willingly sell tickets to families in those cabins then they are complicit in potentially destroying the value proposition.
I think the OP makes a good point, but it always seems to come down to the "With Kids" posters who seem to have no empathy with those who don't see the them as little angels who should be indulged, but out of control noise polluters.
And in fact this the issue on board. 90% of parents respect the fact that, if in the premium cabins, those around don't wish to be entertained by their offspring, just as if they choose to take them into a premium restaurant, they can't treat it like a family pub. If they want a relaxed "anything goes" experience for the brood - then its pub for lunch or the economy cabin.
I had a really annoying F expereince recently, where the couple just let their 3 kids run amok. The attitude was "we / our employer have paid for this, therefore we can do what we like - and damn the other folk who have saved for the experience"
Actually it must have been reported by the crew, as i got some Avios. But I'm not saying how many cause you will all want some...
I think the OP makes a good point, but it always seems to come down to the "With Kids" posters who seem to have no empathy with those who don't see the them as little angels who should be indulged, but out of control noise polluters.
And in fact this the issue on board. 90% of parents respect the fact that, if in the premium cabins, those around don't wish to be entertained by their offspring, just as if they choose to take them into a premium restaurant, they can't treat it like a family pub. If they want a relaxed "anything goes" experience for the brood - then its pub for lunch or the economy cabin.
I had a really annoying F expereince recently, where the couple just let their 3 kids run amok. The attitude was "we / our employer have paid for this, therefore we can do what we like - and damn the other folk who have saved for the experience"
Actually it must have been reported by the crew, as i got some Avios. But I'm not saying how many cause you will all want some...
There are many other conditions that exist on public transport options that can be just as troublesome for pax; HIDDY refers to some - but there are also the "BO" group; the constant chatters; the walking all night group; the people that have to have their light on - even if they are dead to the world (had one like that kept my 2yo awake all night in Y once - not crying but was miserable all the following day - that time the child is on the end of a bad night's sleep!); the all my stuff is in the OH bin; the stinky feet brigade; etc, etc.
Yes it was #30'ish for the private jet comment rather than #50 - it should have been #2. Other option is only fly with a group and block out the whole cabin (F/CW or WT+) - not practical? Well travelling overseas on a boat if you have persons in your group considered "under age" - whether that is 5/6 (school) - 12 (BA adult fare) - 18/21 (drinking) is not exactly practical either.
Rant not over - just suspended until the next "I think compensation should be offered because I am in premium class and I didn't get my beauty rest because of the "kid" comment".
May 28, 2012, 9:57 pm
#62
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PEK and BOS
Programs: BA - Blue
Posts: 4,531
The same old thread popping up. HB raises an interesting issue: if there are two separate premium cabins, only one of which will accommodate small children, I do think this is reasonably fair. However, one might be faced with a jammed 'adult' cabin, with only seat choice being v. undesirable (think middle two in CW) or a great seat choice in the 'family' section. Not all routes will have children, so, what does one do?? 
And although no-one here seems to imply their child is ever the one crying, let me admit mea culpa. Our daughter, approaching three, has flown since 9 weeks of age, in all cabins: Y, W, J, F. I don't know exactly how many miles she's done, but it must be >>50k. Although she's had the odd fussy moment, she's had one flight where she was apparently a nightmare (I wasn't on that leg): a short hop BOS-MSP, c. 2010. Apologies to anyone who was on that flight.
Even the best kids have off days and vice versa. If BA or any other airline (such as malaysian above) want to ban kids from a particular cabin, that is their prerogative. Familes with children will vote with their wallets, and the market will determine whether it's a sustainable model. Some cultures seem more likely to have families flying in premium cabins than others, which makes me think BA, for one, won't be doing this (and one can imagine what the Daily Mail would say).
Also interesting to note at least 2 precedents of being awarded compensation for having rest disturbed by children. It's likely that if a one-off, this may happen, but given the high probability of having some disturbance in a cabin with several children in it, I can't see this as being sustainable.
One last point: I have found that since having a small child of my own, I am far less disturbed by the cries of children other than my own...so perhaps even better than a BOSE QC15, I would recommend OP, HB and others to invest in a little sprog (although costs are far more than a full-fare F RTW even).
tb
And although no-one here seems to imply their child is ever the one crying, let me admit mea culpa. Our daughter, approaching three, has flown since 9 weeks of age, in all cabins: Y, W, J, F. I don't know exactly how many miles she's done, but it must be >>50k. Although she's had the odd fussy moment, she's had one flight where she was apparently a nightmare (I wasn't on that leg): a short hop BOS-MSP, c. 2010. Apologies to anyone who was on that flight.
Even the best kids have off days and vice versa. If BA or any other airline (such as malaysian above) want to ban kids from a particular cabin, that is their prerogative. Familes with children will vote with their wallets, and the market will determine whether it's a sustainable model. Some cultures seem more likely to have families flying in premium cabins than others, which makes me think BA, for one, won't be doing this (and one can imagine what the Daily Mail would say).
Also interesting to note at least 2 precedents of being awarded compensation for having rest disturbed by children. It's likely that if a one-off, this may happen, but given the high probability of having some disturbance in a cabin with several children in it, I can't see this as being sustainable.
One last point: I have found that since having a small child of my own, I am far less disturbed by the cries of children other than my own...so perhaps even better than a BOSE QC15, I would recommend OP, HB and others to invest in a little sprog (although costs are far more than a full-fare F RTW even).
tb
May 28, 2012, 10:12 pm
#63
Join Date: May 2009
Location: USA
Programs: BA-Gold (dropping to Silver soon); AA & Flying Blue; Top Gear (the Clarkson years); Doctor Who :)
Posts: 422
The same old thread popping up. HB raises an interesting issue: if there are two separate premium cabins, only one of which will accommodate small children, I do think this is reasonably fair. However, one might be faced with a jammed 'adult' cabin, with only seat choice being v. undesirable (think middle two in CW) or a great seat choice in the 'family' section. Not all routes will have children, so, what does one do??
So not sure how this would work - you are right though in that the model would win/lose on the wallets of the paying public.One last point: I have found that since having a small child of my own, I am far less disturbed by the cries of children other than my own...so perhaps even better than a BOSE QC15, I would recommend OP, HB and others to invest in a little sprog (although costs are far more than a full-fare F RTW even).
tb
tb
May 28, 2012, 10:15 pm
#64
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
However most of my in-flight rests are adversely affected by adults rather than children or infants.
I agree with someone who said he/she wished airlines did not offer infant/child fares in premium cabins though.
May 28, 2012, 10:16 pm
#66
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: PMI
Programs: BA,LH,CX,EK SPG,IC mainly and a few others
Posts: 1,862
You'd be surprised. 9M recently announced they will be not having babies and small children on the upper desk of their 380s which I think is absolutely right thing to do. If one disturbs others, this one had to be segregated to separate cabin. For me, this places 9M above all one world carriers with the credit towards knowing what their customers actually want.
AX
AX
May 28, 2012, 11:53 pm
#67
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,513
I too love my Bose, and wouldn't dream of travelling long haul without them. However, while they work a treat on the constant drone of engine noise, they do absolutely nothing to cancel the varying tones of a screaming infant.
Do others have a different experience with noise cancelling headphones?
Do others have a different experience with noise cancelling headphones?
I love my Bose QCs, but they do have their limits.
May 29, 2012, 12:05 am
#68
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Hague, NL
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Posts: 22,911
The moment you become a parent yourself the sound of children crying all of a sudden becomes less irritating for men. That is because they produce a lot less testosterone in the first years after birth and become (literally) more feminine. Hence your more relaxed demeanor. It has nothing to do with gaining some kind of special insight or maturity. I am sorry to disappoint.
So, dear parents, please realize that for us - non parents - a child's cry is actually finely tuned to irritate us to no extend. That is not because we are idiots but because nature intended it that way. Some may be an exception but this is a general rule.
By the same logic you simply becoming a parent by having unprotected sex does not make you an expert at child rearing (as I have witnessed many times) or makes your child the cutest little boy/girl in the world. Nature makes you believe that.
Now, the fact that I can accept that it sometimes rains on a sunny holiday island does not mean I have to like it when I have 2 weeks of rain when I take that holiday of a lifetime on [insert your favorite island here]. I can take my private jet and move to another island but alas; limited funds.
What I am trying to say is that you should not confuse us not appreciating a crying child in any cabin with a hatred for children or any kind of personality disorder. Also, I don't need to be able to play the piano to hear if someone else can. The same goes for parenting. Trust me.
May 29, 2012, 12:10 am
#69
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Another forum
Programs: Good Riddance FT!
Posts: 2,005
I actually do think this is a BA issue. The whole purpose of premium cabins is rest, and if they willingly sell tickets to families in those cabins then they are complicit in potentially destroying the value proposition.
I think the OP makes a good point, but it always seems to come down to the "With Kids" posters who seem to have no empathy with those who don't see the them as little angels who should be indulged, but out of control noise polluters.
And in fact this the issue on board. 90% of parents respect the fact that, if in the premium cabins, those around don't wish to be entertained by their offspring, just as if they choose to take them into a premium restaurant, they can't treat it like a family pub. If they want a relaxed "anything goes" experience for the brood - then its pub for lunch or the economy cabin.
I had a really annoying F expereince recently, where the couple just let their 3 kids run amok. The attitude was "we / our employer have paid for this, therefore we can do what we like - and damn the other folk who have saved for the experience"
Actually it must have been reported by the crew, as i got some Avios. But I'm not saying how many cause you will all want some...
I think the OP makes a good point, but it always seems to come down to the "With Kids" posters who seem to have no empathy with those who don't see the them as little angels who should be indulged, but out of control noise polluters.
And in fact this the issue on board. 90% of parents respect the fact that, if in the premium cabins, those around don't wish to be entertained by their offspring, just as if they choose to take them into a premium restaurant, they can't treat it like a family pub. If they want a relaxed "anything goes" experience for the brood - then its pub for lunch or the economy cabin.
I had a really annoying F expereince recently, where the couple just let their 3 kids run amok. The attitude was "we / our employer have paid for this, therefore we can do what we like - and damn the other folk who have saved for the experience"
Actually it must have been reported by the crew, as i got some Avios. But I'm not saying how many cause you will all want some...
However, crying children do occur, and we do need to travel with our children on occasion. It's not at all like a restaurant, where one does not stay for 10-12 hours, and also has the option of stepping outside.
You know very well children are allowed to fly and you also know very well where the cot seats are, if you spend any time at all on flyertalk. For someone to demand compensation for something like this, seems to me...well, sad.
May 29, 2012, 1:10 am
#70
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SXB
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Posts: 2,583
The hotels chains forums are full of people asking for (and getting) compensation because they couldn't sleep due to other guests being noisy for whatever reason. This isn't generally the fault of the hotel, either. One could say that the purpose of an hotel room is to sleep, and the purpose of a plane ticket is transportation, but if the airlines advertize their premium cabins as places to sleep in to arrive relaxed at destination, the distinction is more blurry.
May 29, 2012, 1:16 am
#72
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PEK and BOS
Programs: BA - Blue
Posts: 4,531
Overall agree somewhat with your analysis and highly selective parsing of the literature. However, I think the two are not mutually exclusive. One really does become more patient and tolerant when one is a parent (at least in this n=1).
And although I can, as a non-pianist, appreciate when my pianist wife plays a wrong note, I don't really, truly, appreciate the effort required to get to the point where the rest sounds so good that the single wrong note jars.
Being a parent is not a unique and outstanding job: in fact, it is one of the most common shared experiences on the planet. As parents, we like to to think that a) we are especially good at this thing, despite lack of training, b)noone else can appreciate what we go through, c) our children are 'better than average' [a la garrison keillor]. But, it's nonetheless a very different type of challenge to anything else that I do, and certainly, I can say for one, any preconceptions that I had before parenting were largely false. One of the biggest being that it's always easy to know what the right course of action in a situation is: it's not, at least for me, nor my wife, who is far wiser than I am.
Of course, none of this solves the OP's dilemma. I'd like to encourage them to write to BA CS, and let us know what the outcome is.
tb
And although I can, as a non-pianist, appreciate when my pianist wife plays a wrong note, I don't really, truly, appreciate the effort required to get to the point where the rest sounds so good that the single wrong note jars.
Being a parent is not a unique and outstanding job: in fact, it is one of the most common shared experiences on the planet. As parents, we like to to think that a) we are especially good at this thing, despite lack of training, b)noone else can appreciate what we go through, c) our children are 'better than average' [a la garrison keillor]. But, it's nonetheless a very different type of challenge to anything else that I do, and certainly, I can say for one, any preconceptions that I had before parenting were largely false. One of the biggest being that it's always easy to know what the right course of action in a situation is: it's not, at least for me, nor my wife, who is far wiser than I am.
Of course, none of this solves the OP's dilemma. I'd like to encourage them to write to BA CS, and let us know what the outcome is.
tb
Actually, it has nothing to do with patience. It is a biological phenomena. The cries of a child are finely tuned by mother nature to be the most irritating sound in the world to adults. Men will try to solve the situation that makes the child cry and women will want to comfort the child. However nowadays, neither is allowed since only the brilliant 'expert' parents are allowed to sooth (or not) their children.
The moment you become a parent yourself the sound of children crying all of a sudden becomes less irritating for men. That is because they produce a lot less testosterone in the first years after birth and become (literally) more feminine. Hence your more relaxed demeanor. It has nothing to do with gaining some kind of special insight or maturity. I am sorry to disappoint.
So, dear parents, please realize that for us - non parents - a child's cry is actually finely tuned to irritate us to no extend. That is not because we are idiots but because nature intended it that way. Some may be an exception but this is a general rule.
By the same logic you simply becoming a parent by having unprotected sex does not make you an expert at child rearing (as I have witnessed many times) or makes your child the cutest little boy/girl in the world. Nature makes you believe that.
Now, the fact that I can accept that it sometimes rains on a sunny holiday island does not mean I have to like it when I have 2 weeks of rain when I take that holiday of a lifetime on [insert your favorite island here]. I can take my private jet and move to another island but alas; limited funds.
What I am trying to say is that you should not confuse us not appreciating a crying child in any cabin with a hatred for children or any kind of personality disorder. Also, I don't need to be able to play the piano to hear if someone else can. The same goes for parenting. Trust me.
The moment you become a parent yourself the sound of children crying all of a sudden becomes less irritating for men. That is because they produce a lot less testosterone in the first years after birth and become (literally) more feminine. Hence your more relaxed demeanor. It has nothing to do with gaining some kind of special insight or maturity. I am sorry to disappoint.
So, dear parents, please realize that for us - non parents - a child's cry is actually finely tuned to irritate us to no extend. That is not because we are idiots but because nature intended it that way. Some may be an exception but this is a general rule.
By the same logic you simply becoming a parent by having unprotected sex does not make you an expert at child rearing (as I have witnessed many times) or makes your child the cutest little boy/girl in the world. Nature makes you believe that.
Now, the fact that I can accept that it sometimes rains on a sunny holiday island does not mean I have to like it when I have 2 weeks of rain when I take that holiday of a lifetime on [insert your favorite island here]. I can take my private jet and move to another island but alas; limited funds.
What I am trying to say is that you should not confuse us not appreciating a crying child in any cabin with a hatred for children or any kind of personality disorder. Also, I don't need to be able to play the piano to hear if someone else can. The same goes for parenting. Trust me.
May 29, 2012, 1:40 am
#73
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: in a cabin
Posts: 6,522
Thx for the replies. No I do not think that BA is at fault. but I can tell you that from all the tuts and evil looks of other pax it was clear that most people payed a premium for a comfy few hrs of sleep and not to listen to a screaming baby!
Why promote a fully flat bed in a premium cabin if you are going to have screaming children keeping you awake all night anyway. that more the point I am making. The bassinet is there so I understand that they will use it...
BTW a fart never woke me up before hiddy, I know, my wife tells me all the time...^
Why promote a fully flat bed in a premium cabin if you are going to have screaming children keeping you awake all night anyway. that more the point I am making. The bassinet is there so I understand that they will use it...
BTW a fart never woke me up before hiddy, I know, my wife tells me all the time...^
Who knows with children really? Age, development, recent experiences, growing etc all contribute to making life tough. Especially up to two-three years old when they can't talk or communicate flawlessly, hence screaming.
Petrus Jr has flown extensively, and on Sunday was his first screaming flight. He's 19 months. In December & january he did ARN-LHR-EZE-LHR-ARN in Club with a fever on the outbound and was quiet as a mouse, and had just started to learn how to walk properly.
As a 4 month old he did a run to DXB in F, and was an angel the entire trip.After experiencing ourselves, talking to friends and family, it does appear that the age span between 1 1/2 and 3 is the worst. As such, Petrus Jr is grounded from the next long-haul
May 29, 2012, 1:53 am
#74
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA gold, *A gold, SPG silver, HHonors gold
Posts: 1,438
...
The moment you become a parent yourself the sound of children crying all of a sudden becomes less irritating for men. That is because they produce a lot less testosterone in the first years after birth and become (literally) more feminine. Hence your more relaxed demeanor.
...
May 29, 2012, 1:54 am
#75
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA gold, *A gold, SPG silver, HHonors gold
Posts: 1,438
The hotels chains forums are full of people asking for (and getting) compensation because they couldn't sleep due to other guests being noisy for whatever reason. This isn't generally the fault of the hotel, either. One could say that the purpose of an hotel room is to sleep, and the purpose of a plane ticket is transportation, but if the airlines advertize their premium cabins as places to sleep in to arrive relaxed at destination, the distinction is more blurry.