Ask the BA Staffer and Heathrow ATC
May 22, 2012, 1:10 pm
#1156
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
What exactly is Hot Spot HS1 at LHR?
Johan
Johan
May 22, 2012, 1:20 pm
#1157
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 28
Johan,
See page 2 here. Hot Spots are points on airfields identified as being points on the airfield where pilots make errors when taxiing, be it taking a wrong taxiway or in this case entering the runway without a clearance. They are published to make crews more aware of where others have made an error before to help prevent them making the same mistakes.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...IwkaFRv6uK3EgQ
See page 2 here. Hot Spots are points on airfields identified as being points on the airfield where pilots make errors when taxiing, be it taking a wrong taxiway or in this case entering the runway without a clearance. They are published to make crews more aware of where others have made an error before to help prevent them making the same mistakes.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...IwkaFRv6uK3EgQ
Last edited by Bobalong; May 22, 2012 at 1:43 pm
May 22, 2012, 1:28 pm
#1158
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bristol, UK
Programs: HH D, Rad VIP, Marriott G
Posts: 5,359
May 22, 2012, 1:55 pm
#1159
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,476
Any of you ATC folks like to recall the story of an inbound Concorde with a total VHF radio failure, helped out by a mobile phone in the early days of such devices .......
May 22, 2012, 2:01 pm
#1160
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 387
I believe you!
May 22, 2012, 2:07 pm
#1161
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 875
The great and the good of UK ATC and Heathrow Airport Ltd gathered in the sixth floor conference room of the old tower to see the last day of Concorde operations, to see the last three flights arrive consecutively.
There were about 100 people crammed in, watching the airport from the floor to ceiling windows.
At the allotted time, we got confirmation that they were established on final.....however, it was at precisely that moment that the old air conditioning in the room gave up valiantly trying to cope with 100 anticipatory onlookers, and all the windows promptly steamed up, leaving only a few with a clear view!
Incidentally, the air con in the new tower struggles to cope with ten people in the VCR.....that's progress......
There were about 100 people crammed in, watching the airport from the floor to ceiling windows.
At the allotted time, we got confirmation that they were established on final.....however, it was at precisely that moment that the old air conditioning in the room gave up valiantly trying to cope with 100 anticipatory onlookers, and all the windows promptly steamed up, leaving only a few with a clear view!
Incidentally, the air con in the new tower struggles to cope with ten people in the VCR.....that's progress......
May 22, 2012, 3:16 pm
#1162
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 70
As soon as it pushed back from stand it was tight on fuel, especially on the Barbados run, so an expeditious departure was always appreciated. It also occasionally had to depart at a specific time to deconflict with the AFR Concorde departing from Paris. There were only, from memory, a couple of supersonic tracks across the North Atlantic (they were above the weather that affected the subsonic traffic so the SST tracks were fixed, they didn't move on a daily basis as the other tracks do).
It wasn't unusual to get a call in approach from BA, within minutes of the aircraft departing Barbados back to LHR, to advise it would only have minimal if any holding capacity back in London. The JFK flight could usually manage 15 to 20 minutes or so if necessary.
Then there were the calls to say it was on for the record time crossing and any chance of a no delay approach to see if they could break it...
In the terminal area it was an impressive performer. Could fly exceptionally quickly to relatively short final, or could fly really quite slowly as well, though the latter at a tremendous fuel and noise penalty. When light it went up like a lift and could also do a good impression of a brick on the way down.
Sadly missed from an ATC perspective.
It wasn't unusual to get a call in approach from BA, within minutes of the aircraft departing Barbados back to LHR, to advise it would only have minimal if any holding capacity back in London. The JFK flight could usually manage 15 to 20 minutes or so if necessary.
Then there were the calls to say it was on for the record time crossing and any chance of a no delay approach to see if they could break it...
In the terminal area it was an impressive performer. Could fly exceptionally quickly to relatively short final, or could fly really quite slowly as well, though the latter at a tremendous fuel and noise penalty. When light it went up like a lift and could also do a good impression of a brick on the way down.
Sadly missed from an ATC perspective.
May 22, 2012, 3:49 pm
#1163
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,476
Aircraft have two types of radio, normal VHF radio, with a range of 200 miles or so, and HF (short wave) radio, which enables communication across the ocean.
Concorde inbound to London, gets 200 miles from Shannon, says goodbye on HF and calls up on the VHF frequency, only to find a complete VHF failure since they left range of Canada.
Of course, there is a procedure for this, they call back to Shannon on HF and advise what's happened, Shannon phones up the various points along the way and relays the messages on HF. No need to land at Shannon to get this fixed. However, as they descend towards London there is a likelihood this radio communication may be lost. Another procedure, they are passed all the detail through to landing clearance.
It's actually a thought-provoking moment to lose all your radio communication (as I found out myself once PPL over Essex when my transmit switch suddenly broke), every transmission Shannon relayed was possibly the last received, although they had been passed the minimum necessary to land, there would be a Follow Me vehicle on landing, and there was obviously lots of dialogue between Shannon and Heathrow. Suddenly Shannon passes a non-standard message from Heathrow "Captain, do you have a mobile telephone available ?". Affirmative answer. "Then call ATC on 01895-xxxxxx". And so, at a low altitude, Concorde has its clearances directly confirmed by mobile phone.
This all happened in the early 1990s when mobile phones were still relatively uncommon. For the purists, I've abbreviated things a lot. Radio failures were a continuing Concorde issue.
May 22, 2012, 4:35 pm
#1164
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,146
Old ex-ATCO says "eeeekkk", but nice resolution ^
7600 works wonders for both Civ and Mil ATCOs, of course, as does a green Verey on short final
7600 works wonders for both Civ and Mil ATCOs, of course, as does a green Verey on short final
May 22, 2012, 6:14 pm
#1165
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: LON, ACK, BOS..... (Not necessarily in that order)
Programs: **Mucci Diamond Hairbrush** - compared to that nothing else matters (+BA Bronze)
Posts: 15,132
Standard track Sierra Mike was the usual BAW1 or BAW3 oceanic clearance. However, if there was something preventing it (conflicting with AFR Concorde, or airspace closure/military exercise), we used to have to read out the latitude, longitude, flight level and sometimes speed for each oceanic waypoint, of which there were at least eight.....not good when the frequency is going like the clappers already, and you know from talking to Sector 23 Bristol that it's going to be a non-standard one, when you hear "Good morning Delivery, Speedbird Concorde One is half an hour to start, requesting Oceanic Clearance......."
Hey, Supervisor, I must be next for a break!
Hey, Supervisor, I must be next for a break!
May 22, 2012, 7:01 pm
#1166
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: LON, ACK, BOS..... (Not necessarily in that order)
Programs: **Mucci Diamond Hairbrush** - compared to that nothing else matters (+BA Bronze)
Posts: 15,132
As soon as it pushed back from stand it was tight on fuel, especially on the Barbados run, so an expeditious departure was always appreciated. It also occasionally had to depart at a specific time to deconflict with the AFR Concorde departing from Paris. There were only, from memory, a couple of supersonic tracks across the North Atlantic (they were above the weather that affected the subsonic traffic so the SST tracks were fixed, they didn't move on a daily basis as the other tracks do).
It wasn't unusual to get a call in approach from BA, within minutes of the aircraft departing Barbados back to LHR, to advise it would only have minimal if any holding capacity back in London. The JFK flight could usually manage 15 to 20 minutes or so if necessary.
Then there were the calls to say it was on for the record time crossing and any chance of a no delay approach to see if they could break it...
In the terminal area it was an impressive performer. Could fly exceptionally quickly to relatively short final, or could fly really quite slowly as well, though the latter at a tremendous fuel and noise penalty. When light it went up like a lift and could also do a good impression of a brick on the way down.
It wasn't unusual to get a call in approach from BA, within minutes of the aircraft departing Barbados back to LHR, to advise it would only have minimal if any holding capacity back in London. The JFK flight could usually manage 15 to 20 minutes or so if necessary.
Then there were the calls to say it was on for the record time crossing and any chance of a no delay approach to see if they could break it...
In the terminal area it was an impressive performer. Could fly exceptionally quickly to relatively short final, or could fly really quite slowly as well, though the latter at a tremendous fuel and noise penalty. When light it went up like a lift and could also do a good impression of a brick on the way down.
|Sadly missed from a never got to fly her perspective too.
May 22, 2012, 7:05 pm
#1167
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: LON, ACK, BOS..... (Not necessarily in that order)
Programs: **Mucci Diamond Hairbrush** - compared to that nothing else matters (+BA Bronze)
Posts: 15,132
The great and the good of UK ATC and Heathrow Airport Ltd gathered in the sixth floor conference room of the old tower to see the last day of Concorde operations, to see the last three flights arrive consecutively.
There were about 100 people crammed in, watching the airport from the floor to ceiling windows.
At the allotted time, we got confirmation that they were established on final.....however, it was at precisely that moment that the old air conditioning in the room gave up valiantly trying to cope with 100 anticipatory onlookers, and all the windows promptly steamed up, leaving only a few with a clear view!
Incidentally, the air con in the new tower struggles to cope with ten people in the VCR.....that's progress......
There were about 100 people crammed in, watching the airport from the floor to ceiling windows.
At the allotted time, we got confirmation that they were established on final.....however, it was at precisely that moment that the old air conditioning in the room gave up valiantly trying to cope with 100 anticipatory onlookers, and all the windows promptly steamed up, leaving only a few with a clear view!
Incidentally, the air con in the new tower struggles to cope with ten people in the VCR.....that's progress......
May 23, 2012, 2:12 am
#1168
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cambs
Programs: Mucci, BAEC Silver, Scandic 3rd Floor, PC Pleb, FB Off White, Tufty Club
Posts: 2,836
When I lived on the LHR flight path from the noise I could tell if two types of aircraft were leaving - Concorde and anything Russian 
I recall seeing one of the Airport programmes many years ago when there was a Concorde coming in behind (IIRC) an EgyptAir flight. The MS pilot made a right pigs ear of his landing - floated half way down the runway and when he did put it down he took ages to vacate, despite being asked by ATC to vacate at the earliest opportunity. The Concorde pilot called a go around, and the controller was heard to say "I'll bet there's a bit of a kick when he throttled that back up". Needless to say, the rocket was cleared for a quick return and landed on the second attempt.
I recall seeing one of the Airport programmes many years ago when there was a Concorde coming in behind (IIRC) an EgyptAir flight. The MS pilot made a right pigs ear of his landing - floated half way down the runway and when he did put it down he took ages to vacate, despite being asked by ATC to vacate at the earliest opportunity. The Concorde pilot called a go around, and the controller was heard to say "I'll bet there's a bit of a kick when he throttled that back up". Needless to say, the rocket was cleared for a quick return and landed on the second attempt.
May 23, 2012, 4:30 am
#1169
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,476
My memory of Concorde's last day was finishing a business meeting in Darlington early, and being dropped back at Teesside airport for the return flight to Heathrow (on the old BMI service, now gone) about 3 hours before its departure. It was actually the next departure on the board. The place was absolutely deserted, but there was a small coffee stand open and a television, where I saw the events happen.
What a boring place Teesside was that afternoon. A PA28 doing circuits was the highlight.
The people in the office had asked if I really wanted to be taken back so early, but of course I was hoping for the previous flight to be running late so I could get there in the midst of the festivities. By the time I arrived at Heathrow, of course, nothing to be seen at all.
At our house, close to London City, if it got an extended downwind leg when Heathrow was on westerlies it would pass overhead, with that distinctive engine noise approaching, and I always, always, went out into the back garden to see (or if low cloud, only to hear) it pass.
Who here heard it come down the Thames at exactly midnight on Millennium night, associated with the opening of ther London Eye which BA then sponsored ? We were at Tower Bridge. Much publicised, on the night the cloudbase was about 100 feet, so it was only heard, despite which everyone looked skywards. Bummer !
What a boring place Teesside was that afternoon. A PA28 doing circuits was the highlight.
The people in the office had asked if I really wanted to be taken back so early, but of course I was hoping for the previous flight to be running late so I could get there in the midst of the festivities. By the time I arrived at Heathrow, of course, nothing to be seen at all.
At our house, close to London City, if it got an extended downwind leg when Heathrow was on westerlies it would pass overhead, with that distinctive engine noise approaching, and I always, always, went out into the back garden to see (or if low cloud, only to hear) it pass.
Who here heard it come down the Thames at exactly midnight on Millennium night, associated with the opening of ther London Eye which BA then sponsored ? We were at Tower Bridge. Much publicised, on the night the cloudbase was about 100 feet, so it was only heard, despite which everyone looked skywards. Bummer !
May 23, 2012, 4:33 am
#1170
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York
Programs: BA Gold, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 246
I have a random question for any Flight Crew that occurred to me sitting by the exit row this morning. How often are the emergency exit doors actually opened on an aircraft to check they still work smoothly? How often are the inflatable slides tested?