T8191

Nice one, Scott … in the Area world we never had time to photograph the strips!

Amazingly familiar, though, and still makes sense after … some years!

In the en-route world, all those pre-printed holding pattern levels would be replaced by a large blank space [apart from the requested cruising level] full of manual inputs indicating "Climb to FL180" = ^80 and that sort of thing. Then deleted and replaced by ^360, and then the climb arrow deleted when he got there. Sorry, keyboard won't do a proper upward climb arrow.

Another beauty of the system is that you could look at a controller's strips and assess what's happening without having to interrupt him - unless there's a direct need to coordinate. And of course they're all retained, so the 'attachment of blame' is written down!

stifle

Why use the three-letter airline codes and four-letter airport codes?

T8191

To avoid confusion. Simple as that.
If it's 3 characters, it means airline, if it's 4 its an airport. On Scott's flight strips, BA is BAW.

Oh, God, I remember on my basic Assistant's Course in 196x having to learn verbatim the ICAO location indicators for half the World's airports. I can still remember HUEN [Entebbe] and a few others as well.

There was actually a CAA Working Group [a popular hobby in the 15-story Polo-Mint in Kingsway] focussed on trying to eliminate potential confusion between call signs and other things. Down to minutiae like BA276 and BA267 being in the air at the same time/place.

Scott Pilgrim

It's also that information on the strip is derived from the flight plan. The flight plan standard uses the ICAO three-letter code for company call signs (assuming one allocated, if not the registration would likely be used) and the ICAO four-letter code for point of departure and destination.

Scott Pilgrim

There's a call sign management cell at the CFMU and NATS also makes available a call sign confusion management tool to the airlines.

T8191

BTW, Scott (and HT) I hope you don't mind me chipping in occasionally.

Apart from the nostalgia aspect, I'd like to show that the Military do things in much the same way (where appropriate) and that UK ATC remains very much a joint operation (except at LHR, of course, but certainly at Swanwick Centre).

Scott Pilgrim

^

Silver Fox

With the speed that the CAA moves I suspect they are still working on it !

Scott Pilgrim

Courtesy of Charlie Kilo, passing through the south east of the UK early in the morning of one 25/12...

Heathrow Tower

We use ICAO 3 letter codes because there are not enough two letter codes to go around. Witness the 'newer' airlines using one letter and one number.

ATC could get confused by that, is U2384 callsign Uniform 2384, or Easy 384? EZY384 is far simpler to us simple folk!

T8191, we still get our trainees to learn all of the '4 letters' that we see......and all the semi-rude mnemonics used to recall them!

Scott Pilgrim

The same two character IATA designator can be issued to more than one aircraft operating agency i.e. it is not unique and, not all operators will have an IATA code.

All operators should have a three letter ICAO designator code and associated call sign that is unique. It's a flight planning requirement that it's this designator that is used in the flight plan (or, if it's to be used on the r/t, the registration or, in the case of the military, the call sign to be used in flight; none of which are to exceed seven characters!) and, as mentioned, it's the flight plan information that ends up on the strip.

Globaliser

So are you not expected to know the callsigns off by heart, or are they printed on a "just in case" basis? I suppose you may occasionally get a three-letter airline code that you just don't recognise!

BicesterTerrier

Thanks again for all the responses to these questions. I actually hope to see this thread in bold when I login, so much information that is shared. Some of it at a geeky level, some at a trivia level. ^

Now I have a question for any CC.

I flew LAN yesterday, EZE to GRU. I was in premium economy, which to be honest is more on a level to BA's s/h "business" product. Perhaps it is time for CE to be rebranded as ET+. Anyhoo, back to the point.

There were 10 of us in the curtained off cabin, sitting 2-2 across a 3-3 cabin with the middle seat turned into a table (there are a few similarities here to CE). The CC in charge of the cabin asked each of us by name what we would like to drink/eat etc. Even going as far as selecting an appropriate language, there were definitely 2 British on the flight who she addressed in English, most others were in Spanish, although a couple got Portuguese.

Not withstanding the fact that she had at least 3 languages, how on earth do you recall names? Do you have a printed seating chart sitting atop the trolley that we can't see, or is there some sort of memory training involved.

Sadly I am generally flying at the back and on my rare trips to CW I have been addressed by name during service, I assume this is standard hence the reason for asking the question and that someone from BA might know. If not I guess I'll have to go looking for the "Ask the LAN staffer and Santiago/Lima/Buenos Aires/Sao Paulo/Bogota ATC" thread.

BingBongBoy

It depends really... I am fully frank that I am crap at remembering names. Faces, yes, names, no. So, for example, in Club World, when we use the Meal Order form, at the top of each seat number is a box to write the passengers name. So, as galley slave, when I am preparing the meal order form, I will use the Passenger Information list to list the names in the appropriate box for that seat number and any other information, such as if they have ordered a special meal, their status, if they are staff or an upgrade etc... This is then used by myself, or my colleagues when they go into the cabin to take the meal order. There is no way on a Hi-J 747 that I could remember all the Club World passengers names, so I have no qualms using the meal order or the Passenger Information List to get the names. Of course I try and be discreet about it... I have it on top of the trolly out of view and whilst I am finishing preparing the current passengers drink/try, I will look at the next passenger to see their name so when I turn to them to ask what they would like, I don't stop and read the list...

But, some of my colleagues are exceptional at remembering peoples names, I wish I could do it. As for language and the likes, on BA, we don't list that on the PIL, so I would imagine the LAN crew wither listened first or guessed which language to address them in. I speak English (obviously), some French, German and a little Italian plus a few words of Russian and Spanish, so if someone speaks to me in one of those languages, I can either continue in one form or another, or know enough to apologise that I don't speak it fluently etc... Again, something I wish I knew more of, but don't.

WHBM

I was recently on an Air Astana 767, Amsterdam to Atyrau. in a half-full economy cabin. Both ways the cabin crew (who appeared to be ethnic Kazakhs one way, ethnic Russians the other) were spot on that after the first encounter they used the passengers' own (or best substitute) language each time thereafter, with the best part of 100 passengers. The crew were all trilingual in Kazakh, Russian and English.