AA ignores oneworld protection when mech causes delay
Sep 4, 2019, 6:38 am
#121
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It's fallacy of induction:
My dog has four legs
My cat has four legs
Therefore my dog is a cat
AA's waiver requires 001
AA's waiver references AA IRROPs policy
Therefoere AA IRROPs policy only applies to 001
I missed the 001 precondition of the waiver, I admit. But I've been on the road all day (and all month it seems). Please forgive me for missing things.
Sep 4, 2019, 9:20 am
#122
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But where in the policy does it state 001?
It's fallacy of induction:
My dog has four legs
My cat has four legs
Therefore my dog is a cat
AA's waiver requires 001
AA's waiver references AA IRROPs policy
Therefoere AA IRROPs policy only applies to 001
I missed the 001 precondition of the waiver, I admit. But I've been on the road all day (and all month it seems). Please forgive me for missing things.
"Mike's" experience would seem to indicate this as well, but, as others have pointed out, the convoluted nature of the routing and perhaps his instance on flying that route (if true), could have led to his difficulties.
AFAIK - No one has seen the full policy that goes with the box that says to treat as one ticket. Only the box. It could say anything above or below. The links so far have gone to irrelevant policies. The best we have so far is a tweet.
Sep 4, 2019, 9:50 am
#123
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The problem with saying it's BA or IB's problem is that in situations where I've had mixed tickets (even on one PNR) involving only a few segments on AA, once I've only got AA operated segments remaining on my ticket, BA and IB (at least, my experience in these situations is only with them), usually take the attitude that it's AA's problem, since all remaining segments are AA operated at that point (I don't say that this is the correct interpretation, only the position they take).
Granted, this was before the merger when pmUS was in *A, but this has been my experience as well. Had IROPS happen with the crew failing to show up for what was BWI-CLT-SAN. Was a Chairman at the time, so we got forced on to two flights - BWI-CLT and CLT-LAX. Only problem was they didn't rebook us to SAN. Got to LAX and the Club put us on UA to SAN. Needless to say, our luggage got lost in the mix so it US deemed it UA's problem to clean up the mess.
On a trip few weeks later, we were supposed to do VIE-ORD-PHL-BWI, with VIE-ORD on OS and the rest on US. We rechecked our bags in ORD at customs, but half of them got lost. It became US's problem to get the bags to us even though they technically weren't involved yet.
Then again, I also had LH unwilling to accommodate me in a reasonable manner on two *A tickets (diverted flight due to midair mechanical), even though LH was the next hop as well. Being a 1K at the time didn't help either.
I don't understand the purpose of having an alliance if they don't protect each other in case of mistakes and IROPS, or be more willing to go the extra mile for an alliance elite. Yes, it supposedly makes ticketing easier for long journeys involving multiple carriers, but the finger pointing seems to come out when things go pear shaped with agents hiding behind obscure policies. Is it really that hard to fix something they screw up in a manner that's acceptable to the customer?
Sep 4, 2019, 3:35 pm
#124
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Sep 4, 2019, 3:37 pm
#125
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This.
Granted, this was before the merger when pmUS was in *A, but this has been my experience as well. Had IROPS happen with the crew failing to show up for what was BWI-CLT-SAN. Was a Chairman at the time, so we got forced on to two flights - BWI-CLT and CLT-LAX. Only problem was they didn't rebook us to SAN. Got to LAX and the Club put us on UA to SAN. Needless to say, our luggage got lost in the mix so it US deemed it UA's problem to clean up the mess.
On a trip few weeks later, we were supposed to do VIE-ORD-PHL-BWI, with VIE-ORD on OS and the rest on US. We rechecked our bags in ORD at customs, but half of them got lost. It became US's problem to get the bags to us even though they technically weren't involved yet.
Then again, I also had LH unwilling to accommodate me in a reasonable manner on two *A tickets (diverted flight due to midair mechanical), even though LH was the next hop as well. Being a 1K at the time didn't help either.
I don't understand the purpose of having an alliance if they don't protect each other in case of mistakes and IROPS, or be more willing to go the extra mile for an alliance elite. Yes, it supposedly makes ticketing easier for long journeys involving multiple carriers, but the finger pointing seems to come out when things go pear shaped with agents hiding behind obscure policies. Is it really that hard to fix something they screw up in a manner that's acceptable to the customer?
Granted, this was before the merger when pmUS was in *A, but this has been my experience as well. Had IROPS happen with the crew failing to show up for what was BWI-CLT-SAN. Was a Chairman at the time, so we got forced on to two flights - BWI-CLT and CLT-LAX. Only problem was they didn't rebook us to SAN. Got to LAX and the Club put us on UA to SAN. Needless to say, our luggage got lost in the mix so it US deemed it UA's problem to clean up the mess.
On a trip few weeks later, we were supposed to do VIE-ORD-PHL-BWI, with VIE-ORD on OS and the rest on US. We rechecked our bags in ORD at customs, but half of them got lost. It became US's problem to get the bags to us even though they technically weren't involved yet.
Then again, I also had LH unwilling to accommodate me in a reasonable manner on two *A tickets (diverted flight due to midair mechanical), even though LH was the next hop as well. Being a 1K at the time didn't help either.
I don't understand the purpose of having an alliance if they don't protect each other in case of mistakes and IROPS, or be more willing to go the extra mile for an alliance elite. Yes, it supposedly makes ticketing easier for long journeys involving multiple carriers, but the finger pointing seems to come out when things go pear shaped with agents hiding behind obscure policies. Is it really that hard to fix something they screw up in a manner that's acceptable to the customer?
Sep 4, 2019, 3:45 pm
#126
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Just a limited data point, during a WX, CX call centre took my Avios-issued KIX-HKG (which was cancelled, a typhoon was coming in) and turned it into a redeye HND-HKG. I had to make my own way to HND (easy, more Avios on JL domestic).
On arrival, CX turned it from an redeye HND-HKG into an afternoon HND-HKG, since I was able to show the HND ticketing supervisor they still had 4 seats in my Premium Economy cabin for sale.
FTers in HK was advising me throughout - said I had a lot of flexibility since I have an IRROPed ticket - even one where CX was not at fault.
The only thing I wanted to point out for this thread is that CX has no problems taking control of a BA 125- ticket under airport control.
All Mike's sectors to Dubrovnik should've been under airport control.
It helps in my case both CX and BA both use Amadeus of course.
On arrival, CX turned it from an redeye HND-HKG into an afternoon HND-HKG, since I was able to show the HND ticketing supervisor they still had 4 seats in my Premium Economy cabin for sale.
FTers in HK was advising me throughout - said I had a lot of flexibility since I have an IRROPed ticket - even one where CX was not at fault.
The only thing I wanted to point out for this thread is that CX has no problems taking control of a BA 125- ticket under airport control.
All Mike's sectors to Dubrovnik should've been under airport control.
It helps in my case both CX and BA both use Amadeus of course.
Last edited by percysmith; Sep 4, 2019 at 3:51 pm
Sep 4, 2019, 3:47 pm
#127
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But where in the policy does it state 001?
It's fallacy of induction:
My dog has four legs
My cat has four legs
Therefore my dog is a cat
AA's waiver requires 001
AA's waiver references AA IRROPs policy
Therefoere AA IRROPs policy only applies to 001
I missed the 001 precondition of the waiver, I admit. But I've been on the road all day (and all month it seems). Please forgive me for missing things.
When making a purchase from AA on the review page there is a link to its conditions
When making a purchase from BA, you are entering into a contract with BA and its conditions apply
If the person had purchased 1st ticket from AA and the 2nd ticket from IB, then would expect the policy to apply - nothing was purchased from AA, so how can policies referring to changes to AA tickets be expected to apply.
Sep 4, 2019, 3:53 pm
#128
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AA's CoC
BA is AA's agent unless airport control
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...l#post31451256
Sep 4, 2019, 4:08 pm
#129
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I cannot see how a document that is issued for travel agents to know AA's policies for changing AA tickets can ever be applicable to BA tickets or IB tickets
Since there was no ticket that was issued such that any reference to this policy applies, then I cannot see how AA was at all wrong
As far as disruption on the day for the AA journey paid for by Avios, there is nothing at all to suggest that AA would not meet its obligations to get the person to Honolulu in the event of a disruption
I am not aware of it being written anywhere else other than in the guide for changing AA tickets of a policy to protect the travel
Since there was no ticket that was issued such that any reference to this policy applies, then I cannot see how AA was at all wrong
As far as disruption on the day for the AA journey paid for by Avios, there is nothing at all to suggest that AA would not meet its obligations to get the person to Honolulu in the event of a disruption
I am not aware of it being written anywhere else other than in the guide for changing AA tickets of a policy to protect the travel
Sep 4, 2019, 4:12 pm
#130
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Sep 4, 2019, 4:44 pm
#131
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Don't get me wrong -- it's great whenever AA offers IROPS protection across separate tickets of OW carriers, but it's a discretionary act, not an entitlement.
Sep 4, 2019, 5:32 pm
#132
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Sep 4, 2019, 5:37 pm
#133
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Where in AA's CoC is the protection across separate OW tickets guarantee stated? To your point, the CoC is the legally binding document for airlines, and AA's non-inclusion of the policy within the CoC means the airline does not intend to mandate an obligation to protect upon itself, nor establish a reliance for that protection with its customers..
If you flip further back, my argument is that the separate ticket protection policy applies to all passengers on AA operated flights that have been disrupted.
Although what that policy says is in question - does the current policy really cover AA-OW or even AA-AA misconnections on two tickets?
Last edited by percysmith; Sep 4, 2019 at 5:43 pm
Sep 4, 2019, 5:46 pm
#134
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Not in the CoC - my arguments above only serve to rebut Dave's insistence that you to be under AA's CoC to be eligible for separate ticket protection.
If you flip further back, my argument is that the separate ticket protection policy applies to all passengers on AA operated flights that have been disrupted.
Although what that policy says is in question - does the current policy really cover AA-OW or even AA-AA misconnections on two tickets?
Neither BA nor AA's CoC provide such protection
Sep 4, 2019, 6:00 pm
#135
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