AA ignores oneworld protection when mech causes delay
Sep 3, 2019, 2:53 pm
#91
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Assuming that there is no "same PNR" requirement, as long as AA agents correctly apply the re-accommodation policy, the amount of stress involved should be no different than if all flights were on a single ticket. Would you require 12-24 hours between flights on a single ticket?
Sep 3, 2019, 2:54 pm
#92
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Not saying this is the actual policy, but wouldn't it make logical sense that AA would want such tickets to be on the same PNR (so AA can check if the trip makes sense) if they are to be responsible for re-accomodating passengers? Largely to avoid situations like in the OMAAT post where a flier may attempt to make backwards connections (PHX to HNL to DBV) or otherwise risky connections (too little time between flights). It doesn't sound right that fliers can construct any itinerary they want and have the originating airline responsible for the subsequent flights if something goes wrong.
Sep 3, 2019, 2:58 pm
#93
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Not saying this is the actual policy, but wouldn't it make logical sense that AA would want such tickets to be on the same PNR (so AA can check if the trip makes sense) if they are to be responsible for re-accomodating passengers? Largely to avoid situations like in the OMAAT post where a flier may attempt to make backwards connections (PHX to HNL to DBV) or otherwise risky connections (too little time between flights). It doesn't sound right that fliers can construct any itinerary they want and have the originating airline responsible for the subsequent flights if something goes wrong.
Sep 3, 2019, 3:47 pm
#94
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I still cannot see how AA's ticketing policy can apply when there is no ticket sold by AA
In the end it seems that AA did offer to get the passenger to the destination, but the passenger chose not to travel
Sep 3, 2019, 3:56 pm
#95
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And is there a list of which airlines still participate in an "endorsement waiver programme"?
I still cannot see how AA's ticketing policy can apply when there is no ticket sold by AA
In the end it seems that AA did offer to get the passenger to the destination, but the passenger chose not to travel
I still cannot see how AA's ticketing policy can apply when there is no ticket sold by AA
In the end it seems that AA did offer to get the passenger to the destination, but the passenger chose not to travel
"Does oneworld’s Endorsement Waiver Agreement (EWA) apply to the new connect
partner (FJ)?
Unfortunately, flight delays, cancellations and overbookings do occur, and oneworld
members have agreed that during times of disruptions there is no requirement to endorse
a ticket from one issuing member to the other. This is known as the EWA.
The EWA is designed to allow the airline’s staff to re-book and re-ticket the customer as
quickly and efficiently as possible – avoiding further disruption to the customer’s journey.
Each oneworld connect partner and its sponsor members will apply the principles of the
EWA for customers who have had an involuntary change only – without additional charge
to the passenger."
Sep 3, 2019, 4:14 pm
#96
Join Date: Jul 2013
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All of the policy talk and links are cute, but if AA meant to establish a binding obligation for separate tix reaccom (and meant for pax to rely upon said obligation), it would be written into the legally enforceable Contract of Carriage.
Sep 3, 2019, 5:11 pm
#97
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Insurance should have covered any pre-booked stuff at DBV, which he said he had losses from. It may have also covered the IB ticket, because this was beyond his control, at least he could have tried.
OMAAT should cover the losses for their bloggers when they miss their flights...and have a cool story to tell. They should probably get annual insurance for travel issues individually.
OMAAT should cover the losses for their bloggers when they miss their flights...and have a cool story to tell. They should probably get annual insurance for travel issues individually.
Sep 3, 2019, 5:43 pm
#98
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This is about as bad a set of facts as anyone could hypothesize.
Sometimes it is just an idea that has no slack and a high chance of getting off the rails. But in the best tradition of Flyer Talk we do have a six-page highly-theoretical thread with, unless I missed it, no direct involvement from the aggrieved party. Going for eight! Oh, I mean great!
Sep 3, 2019, 6:15 pm
#99
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Adding to others...
AA, in my experience, has never followed this policy. Every time I have misconnected on two tickets, starting with AA on the first ticket, connecting to OW on the second ticket, it was 100% on me. Not a single AA agent has ever even tried to help, even when citing this policy. AA agents always said it had to be on the same ticket or same PNR for them to do anything.
The latest for me was in June... ticket one AA MIA-JFK, ticket two CX JFK-HKG. Storms pushed our departure back 4 hours causing a misconnect.
FL said no help, except rebook my ticket to JFK at no charge.
AA EP line said no help, except rebook my ticket to JFK at no charge.
AA desk said no help, except rebook my ticket to JFK at no charge.
None would even call CX to see if they would move my flight. "Can't do it on separate tickets on separate PNR's."
1. It would be great to see this full policy. i.e. Does it only apply when the separate tickets are both purchased on AA stock?
2. If it is really AA policy to get you to the final destination, how is it that it seems every agent - or the vast majority of agents - are completely unaware of it?
3. How does AA/we education AA agents on this policy? Is there a reference point? (e.g. look in the system at section A, subsection 2, paragraph 4)
AA, in my experience, has never followed this policy. Every time I have misconnected on two tickets, starting with AA on the first ticket, connecting to OW on the second ticket, it was 100% on me. Not a single AA agent has ever even tried to help, even when citing this policy. AA agents always said it had to be on the same ticket or same PNR for them to do anything.
The latest for me was in June... ticket one AA MIA-JFK, ticket two CX JFK-HKG. Storms pushed our departure back 4 hours causing a misconnect.
FL said no help, except rebook my ticket to JFK at no charge.
AA EP line said no help, except rebook my ticket to JFK at no charge.
AA desk said no help, except rebook my ticket to JFK at no charge.
None would even call CX to see if they would move my flight. "Can't do it on separate tickets on separate PNR's."
1. It would be great to see this full policy. i.e. Does it only apply when the separate tickets are both purchased on AA stock?
2. If it is really AA policy to get you to the final destination, how is it that it seems every agent - or the vast majority of agents - are completely unaware of it?
3. How does AA/we education AA agents on this policy? Is there a reference point? (e.g. look in the system at section A, subsection 2, paragraph 4)
So it can be done. Worth noting that that it took 4 tries to get to that point.
A supervisor at CLT (where I was stranded overnight) seemed to believe that AA would rebook me once I physically missed the first flight on ticket #2 , like the flat tire rule. I didn't really want to take that risk, however.
When I complained to AA afterward, I got the boilerplate "It is clear we let you down, you should get better service especially from our Exec Plat desk, here's some miles to 'win back your respect'"
The fact that AA accepted that "we let you down in several ways" almost makes me think that they believe it shouldn't require playing the telephone lottery game to get similar changes done (i.e. agents should be handling these changes) but more likely the guy just skimmed my complaint.
I wonder how much of a hassle it is to make changes on a non-AA stock ticket. If it's a significant PITA, I could definitely see agents deciding to refuse outright to save time.
Sep 3, 2019, 6:26 pm
#100
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Based on the autopsy results of this fiasco, he should have positioned to HNL two days earlier, lol...
Sep 3, 2019, 6:55 pm
#101
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,372
While individual cases might be complicated, I think this policy is actually a good faith effort on the part of AA to take care of passengers connecting to/from AA/OW partners...The spirit of the policy is that AA will do what it can, within reason, to get passengers to their final destinations in the event of screw-ups by AA or partners or, like, the weather, even if on separate tickets.
It gets dicey when the travel/itinerary is a mileage/status run with a connecting point that the vast vast vast majority of itineraries would not use. AA probably doesn’t account for that in the spirit of the policy. If the passenger had been on, say, AA PHX-PHL, and a separate BA PHL-LHR-DBV ticket, there would be a number of easy and logical options. And it probably could have gotten worked out much sooner.
I’m not trying to excuse the AA agents’ lack of knowledge of the policy, which probably would have helped the passenger out, but it seems like you have a combination of a policy that does not get called upon often, a rolling delay, and an itinerary whose routing and purpose are both not what the policy was designed to protect, all converging into a cluster.
It gets dicey when the travel/itinerary is a mileage/status run with a connecting point that the vast vast vast majority of itineraries would not use. AA probably doesn’t account for that in the spirit of the policy. If the passenger had been on, say, AA PHX-PHL, and a separate BA PHL-LHR-DBV ticket, there would be a number of easy and logical options. And it probably could have gotten worked out much sooner.
I’m not trying to excuse the AA agents’ lack of knowledge of the policy, which probably would have helped the passenger out, but it seems like you have a combination of a policy that does not get called upon often, a rolling delay, and an itinerary whose routing and purpose are both not what the policy was designed to protect, all converging into a cluster.
Sep 3, 2019, 7:24 pm
#102
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
While individual cases might be complicated, I think this policy is actually a good faith effort on the part of AA to take care of passengers connecting to/from AA/OW partners...The spirit of the policy is that AA will do what it can, within reason, to get passengers to their final destinations in the event of screw-ups by AA or partners or, like, the weather, even if on separate tickets.
It gets dicey when the travel/itinerary is a mileage/status run with a connecting point that the vast vast vast majority of itineraries would not use. AA probably doesn’t account for that in the spirit of the policy. If the passenger had been on, say, AA PHX-PHL, and a separate BA PHL-LHR-DBV ticket, there would be a number of easy and logical options. And it probably could have gotten worked out much sooner.
I’m not trying to excuse the AA agents’ lack of knowledge of the policy, which probably would have helped the passenger out, but it seems like you have a combination of a policy that does not get called upon often, a rolling delay, and an itinerary whose routing and purpose are both not what the policy was designed to protect, all converging into a cluster.
It gets dicey when the travel/itinerary is a mileage/status run with a connecting point that the vast vast vast majority of itineraries would not use. AA probably doesn’t account for that in the spirit of the policy. If the passenger had been on, say, AA PHX-PHL, and a separate BA PHL-LHR-DBV ticket, there would be a number of easy and logical options. And it probably could have gotten worked out much sooner.
I’m not trying to excuse the AA agents’ lack of knowledge of the policy, which probably would have helped the passenger out, but it seems like you have a combination of a policy that does not get called upon often, a rolling delay, and an itinerary whose routing and purpose are both not what the policy was designed to protect, all converging into a cluster.
Sep 3, 2019, 7:27 pm
#103
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Sorry I was away for a few hours I was booking two back to back separate tickets, two in OW and two in *A for the return, just to save a few bucks. Sorry I couldn't resist the allure of $20 tickets...Will be back with the sob stories in the future...
Humans, they never learn, sigh....
Humans, they never learn, sigh....
Last edited by nk15; Sep 3, 2019 at 7:39 pm
Sep 3, 2019, 7:56 pm
#104
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Posts: 2,846
Additionally, not to beat a dead horse, but he also would have been fine if, as soon as the mechanical was announced (or shortly thereafter), he had rerouted onto AA 650 (PHX-LAX, 16:50 scheduled departure), connecting to AA 2205 (LAX-HNL, 19:55 scheduled departure)—assuming he was booked on AA 144 (HNL-LAX, 23:22 scheduled departure), which I'm pretty sure he was because he said he had a 10-hr layover in LAX (AA 144 arrives around 07:00 and the IB flight to MAD departs around 17:00).
Ultimately, I don't fault Mike for thinking that AA should have protected him across the separate tickets (even though he probably had more confidence in AA's competence than he probably should have). But I am baffled by the amateurish mistake of actually waiting for AA to cancel the flight (after an endless series of rolling 20-minute delays) before trying to get rebooked. Even if AA had refused to touch a BA award ticket, he could have purchased the flight to HNL through LAX and dealt with AA later.
Last edited by flyingeph12; Sep 3, 2019 at 8:01 pm
Sep 3, 2019, 8:03 pm
#105
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
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For what its worth, I just booked two different tickets ... one on AA with an AA ticket from the hinterlands to JFK and a separate one on a OW carrier from JFK.
I remain confident that if there is a problem and I show up at the Flagship Lounge or call the EXP line, they will take care of me. And, I saved several thousand on a business class ticket.
I remain confident that if there is a problem and I show up at the Flagship Lounge or call the EXP line, they will take care of me. And, I saved several thousand on a business class ticket.