Raul2014

you better call.

Sinurgy

I'm trying to get to Europe via first or business class this June. I have about 150k Chase UR's to work with and was thinking I'd just book AA flights to avoid the BA surcharges but it seems most any combination of west coast to Europe I come up with (SEA, LAX, etc. to LHR, FRA, etc.) the long haul flight always ends up being on BA. Finally I thought I'd concede and just pay the surcharges but now it would seem that when a flight shows up for say 120k miles on AA it comes up around 200k miles on BA. Basically if I'm understanding it right that would indicate that if you book through BA it'll cost 80k more points and a $1000 in fuel surcharges. That just seems crazy, am I missing something?! I feel like my UR points just became worthless in regards to my goal!

Also a random question, if the first leg of a flight is on American, does that make the itinerary American? E.g. Flying from Las Vegas to London...Las Vegas to LAX is on American and then LAX to LHR is on BA...is it an American Flight or is it a BA flight?

3Cforme

If you don't want to pay BA surcharges (there's a thread), be sure to know the AA-network. The only AA aircraft with long-haul F are 77W and unrefurbed 777. You may simplify the problem by keeping your search to Business, where travel on A330s, 767s, and 787s can be added to the mix. (Skip the 757s for long-haul .)

Sticking to Business also adds Finnair and Air Berlin. Business and calling reservations gets Iberia award inventory.

flyingeph12

Redeeming with BA is very different than redeeming with AA, and generally, for TATL from the west coast, it is going to be a bad value.

I am no expert with UR, but my suggestion would be to transfer some of your points to Krisflyer and do JFK-FRA in Singapore Suites class (57,375 with the 15% discount for booking online through Krisflyer + ~$200 in fees). And then use BA for a nonstop flight on AA from the west coast to JFK (there should be $6 in fees). The best choices would be SFO and LAX since AA flies the A321T on those routes, but LAS, SEA, and SAN are also options. Note that BA charges by segment, so as soon as you start adding connections, the cost goes up.

guv1976

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

If BA Avios are being redeemed, sticking to AA flights will not eliminate the problem: BAEC redemptions on AA, AY, BA, or IB TATL flights will all have hefty cash surcharges. AB TATL flights will have none, but LAX-DUS in J on AB (assuming one can even find award-seat availability) will cost 90K Avios one way.

Sinurgy

Actually I can accept the surcharges fine if it gets me a business or first class seat, the problem is that the amount of miles it takes seems disproportionately higher if you book with Avios. The same exact flight on AA.com totals out about 100k miles + surcharges but on BA.com that same flight says 200k Avios + surcharges. So basically it's not the surcharges that are killing it, it's the huge Avios cost. Since all my points are Chase UR, I'm stuck as to what I can do to pull this off!

Yeah I'm noticing that, I spent all this time acquiring Chase UR's for this trip and now it seems like it wasn't worth it. I know they can be used on other airlines, for hotels, etc. but the entire point of doing it was so I could enjoy one of the new'ish J and F while going to Europe. I just had no idea Avios were so damn worthless!!

I have looked into Singapore but all flights I looked at were wait list. That's kind of a big problem because according to what I've read in order to participate on the wait list you have to have enough Krisflyer miles in your account to cover the flight should they award you the flight. That would mean I'd have to transfer my UR's to Krisflyer which is a 1 way transaction, if I don't ever come off the wait list I'm completely screwed. So frustrated.

I didn't make it clear enough in my original post but it's not the surcharges I'm worried about. While of course I'd prefer not to pay them, paying surcharges and still getting to fly in F or J to Europe is worth it. My mistake was assuming that if a flight showed 100K miles on AA.com then the same flight would in the same ballpark on BA.com but what I'm seeing is if you try to book the same flight through BA it costs waaaaaaay more award miles.

Simply put...I have enough miles if I could book on American. I don't have even close to enough miles to book on BA. My miles can only transfer to BA. So close...yet...so far.

guv1976

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

"My mistake was assuming that if a flight showed 100K miles on AA.com then the same flight would in the same ballpark on BA.com but what I'm seeing is if you try to book the same flight through BA it costs waaaaaaay more award miles."

That's true for your particular redemption. Yet for some redemptions, BAEC will charge significantly fewer miles than AAdvantage. But, as you say, your big mistake was assuming that every FFP charges the same number of miles for the same award flight. That's not how it works.

jchanpaper

I am looking to get a ticket for HAN-JFK. Can I route this via LAX on the same ticket? Basically it would be HAN-HKG-LAX-JFK or HAN-NRT-LAX-JFK. To stretch this even a little bit more can it be HAN-HKG-NRT-LAX-JFK?

Another question is if 1 segment is in first does this make the whole itinerary to be priced out in first (the rest in business or economy)?

Happy

The importance to do homework - at least to understand how the targeted program works before blindly accumulate the currency...

That said, how about using UA miles? Can't OP use UA program for his trip? Arguably booking flight for THIS June when we are close to Mid March, by itself already makes the task near impossible... But with the much easier routing rules of UA program, there might be some unusual routes that have J seats, such as TK via IST? TG via BKK? OZ via ICN? or even CA via PEK? He might luck out with LH F 2 weeks out though it would cost 110K one way.

Sinurgy

Yep you're right, I have learned that's not how it works at all. Is there a general rule of thumb on how to determine how many award points a flight is going to cost? What I thought I had learned from all this is that awards are based on the airline you're flying. So if you're flying United, you have to look at the United award chart or if you're flying American, you have to look at the American award chart. However, that's clearly not the case because I just looked at American flight that cost 100K miles on AA.com but 120k Avios on BA.com even though it's entirely an AA flight (no BA metal at all). So that makes it seem like what's most important to worry about (talking miles, let's ignore surcharges for now) is who you are booking through, not which FFP you are using. E.g. If you're flying American, don't bother looking at the American award chart unless you're also booking through American because it's not going to matter. Does that sounds right? If so, does anyone have an award chart that cross references other carriers? That way you know how much a AA flight costs if you have to book it on BA?

I suppose I deserve that comment but in my defense I did do a lot of homework and at the time I originally obtained all the Chase UR's, BA hadn't undergone the big devaluation yet. Your point stands of course, obviously I didn't do enough or I wouldn't be in this situation.

I have considered UA because they do transfer 1:1 but as you said, good luck find availability. It would seem they don't offer much unless you do Anytime Saver (or whatever their equivalent is) which of course is like 2.5x as many miles. I haven't considered some of the unusual routes you mentioned though so thanks for that tip, I'll start looking into those. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

richarddd

The number of miles/points needed depends on the the FFP you're using, not the airline you're flying on (although an FFP may charge different amounts for different airlines). So if you're using BA Avios, you have to look at BA's charts. BA has a rewards flight calculator that gives you the number of points needed at https://www.britishairways.com/trave...r/public/en_gb.

flyingeph12

UA has two award charts--one for awards on its own metal and one for its partners. Obviously, it is less expensive to redeem for flights on UA, but the partner award costs for Europe are still relatively reasonable (70K one-way for J). UA has many partners that fly to Europe, and--as mentioned--their routing rules are more flexible.

The other option possibly to consider with Avios is Aer Lingus, which does not incur the hefty charges that BA will. It is 75k Avios one-way for SFO-DUB (although at this point booking through UA is better at 70K) or 37.5K for BOS-DUB. You can search for EI space on United and then will need to ring up Executive Club. It would be a good idea to research which routes have the new business class if you choose to explore this option.

Sinurgy

Ok this backs up what I've recently discovered and what I meant by saying it matters where you're booking. If you're on BA.com you're stuck with their FFP which frankly kinda sucks. Not only do Avios seem to be horrible bang for buck but also it seems like BA.com is pretty flaky when it comes to searching for award flights. btw...thanks for the link to the awards calculator, that's the first time it's actually worked! Usually I get "The rewards calculator is not offered in your area"

I have been exploring United more now because it seems like while the points are a decent and you don't get slammed with big surcharges on top of it (well that and frankly I don't have many other options). I am concerned about finding a good F or J product that way though, it seems like the offerings just are not as reliable in that regard. How can you tell which routes have the new business (or first) class on the various airlines?

mmdough

For traveling to Europe, I actually find it easier to find award availability on Star Alliance than One World (cause I would avoid flying BA). Try searching from different US cities instead of your home airport and also different destination cities in Europe. You might luck out if you try to be flexible. You can also fly One World one way and Star Alliance the other. That said, you are trying to redeem award tickets 3 months out which is always a challenge no matter what program you use. With ticket prices so cheap these days, maybe you can just buy a coach ticket for this summer and plan a great trip for next time with your miles/points in business/first.

SFO777

Searching EI space on United is not reliable as most of the displayed EI inventory is phantom.