HaleiwaFlyer

Hi everyone.

Another thread has upcoming AA changes, and looks like one change is a huge positive for CK's as we already have FFL access. Instead of choosing FFD as an LP choice, we can use our miles to redeem FFD access. The amount of points is to be determined. This is a huge plus to be able to access FFD on our domestic flights.

LAX FFD is still not open, but some reports of QF F lounge allowing departing transcon domestic AA flights access on that thread.

jhalapin

FFD is *nice* but nothing that I would pay the Flagship Plus difference for or use miles for. YMMV

scubadu

You do seem very excited about this, but I'm not sure it can truly be defined as a "huge plus" unless/until they define how many miles are required. That is kinda key

Furthermore, if the pricing is too aggressive my guess is that the FFD experience, like so many other travel experiences, is likely to get watered down and you will find it much less enjoyable/relaxing because the FFD will be overrun with people cashing in their miles for the "experience." On the flip side, if they price it high, then it just might not be worth it unless you are someone that is "miles rich" which of course might likely be true of most CKs (though I still suspect many would rather get value for miles with premium tickets for family members than for FFD)

I mean, I agree it's probably a net positive change, but I'm not sure it's as big a deal as you are making it out to be...

Regards

HaleiwaFlyer

UA GSs would be over the moon to have access to Polaris Lounge on domestic flights, so I do see this as a huge win for CKs on domestic flights who already have access to FFL. Past couple of years, CKs requested more FFD opportunities on top of the 2 chits given, and here it is...so AA did listen to feedback, which is also a win.

Miles will most likely be somewhere between 15-25k since Five Star Select is 65k worth of points. Most high flying CKs are mileage rich as end of the year LP summaries are most likely 1-2 million. So it's a small drop in the bucket and easily part of the earned mileage on that one way ticket. I don't think non CK flyers will spend miles on both FFL and FFD. Business class flyers may upgrade their experience to FFD if they haven't purchased Business Premier tickets.

Lastly, this may dispel the myth or speculation that FFD is going away completely once F class is eliminated. More utilization means less chance of eliminating FFD altogether, or in the future "Flagship-Business Premier-Dining." I think we are seeing the start of AA LP program evolving to the unbundling of benefits, to purchasable ones (ie. FFL, FFD, Five Star Select....etc). You no longer have to be top elite to obtain those benefits, and can buy each benefit ala carte, as you desire.

Also, it is a positive for a subset of CKs who connect or originate at DFW for domestic afternoon flights and want a place to escape busy FFL times or have abit better food/drink options.

scubadu

I mean no offense, but just because somebody "wants" something doesn't mean it should be granted without careful consideration of the ramifications. I'm aware that UA GS's would be "over the moon" to have Polaris Lounge access on domestic flights, but that doesn't mean UA should cave. Polaris lounges are quite often over crowed as it is and adding in GS domestic access would further exacerbate the issue and dilute the experience for all. I firmly believe that a businesses best customers should be treated well and in fact better than others, but that doesn't mean I believe they should simply be granted anything and everything their little hearts desire.

You might be right, hard to say. Yet I'm continually surprised at what human beings seem to be willing to do these days in order to access lounges and "Instagram worthy" experiences. Its just getting bizarrely out of control...

Let me ask you this... can you point to any lounge experience, whatsoever, any... that has gotten better or improved when access has been expanded/broadened? Any? Amex CL, Capitol One, airline lounges, etc?

I know you think broadening access will not impact things, but never underestimate that in this game, we see this time and time again. The FFDs are very, very small physical spaces and my guess is there will be times now where the experience will be less than it was with more people in that space (particularly at peak times). Now all that said, and to your point, if that keeps these things open then I guess that is a net postive. But, personally, with all the dllution over the years in premium experiences (e.g. lounge over crowding, etc). I want to see some experiences remain premium/exclusive for those that desire them and can achieve them, even when it will often screen me out (which will be often).

But, hey, we'll see how it goes, My overall fear is that in a world literally swimming in miles, you might find there are a lot more takers for this than you expect and the experience will ultimately be downgraded over time. We shall see and it's a prediction that I'd be delighted to be wrong about.

Regards

HaleiwaFlyer

I agree with you, and I hope AA does continue to treat CKs the best. For DFW, on or around 400-500 CKs go through there each day based on the meet and greet CK agents and their daily roster/work load. I am uncertain about MIA's CK loads. With FFD opening in the afternoon, that probably cuts 1/3 to 1/2 of CKs who would physically be there. Most will want to get to their destinations ASAP, and won't have the time to do FFD. Personally, I don't think as many CKs will use the benefits, and am pretty sure AA has already calculated the true costs of expanding FFD to mileage redemption and if they have the staff to handle such volumes. I am just surprised they're expanded to PPRO, rather than CK/EXP. Whenever I go to DFW FFD, during the times of the LHR flights, only about 3-4 tables are occupied. So the utilization is not much at this time; they have capacity to expand.

I agree with you about degradation of lounges over time, since I've seen the changes in quality to AMEX lounges from inception to currently. The biggest difference is that FFD is a pay to access, rather than Amex/Chase/Capitol One's flat captitated one time yearly fee. AMEX and etc. can easily correct the over crowding by charging entrance fees per use, but they deem this as not part of their vision since it competes with their desire to expand market share.

AA will be smart to constantly charge for each access, similar to Private Suites at LAX. You will never see pay to access places over crowded as this will screen out majority of travelers. We are literally talking about a fraction of the top 1% earners in the US that will even spend money on such luxuries of travel.

However, I do believe AA is trying to capture top US spenders in the future, rather than frequent flier travelers. My hypothesis is that we will eventually see a movement towards unbundling of "luxury" travel experiences on AA, that take precedence over being a CK, as already present with Five Star Select. We shall see....

stant

I dont think I have ever seen the DFW FFD with 4 tables occupied, in fact, it's not uncommon to see FFD empty, and thats even when I'm on the heathrow flight. in that regard, filling up FFD would be a net positive for all as it would relieve some of the crowding in the flagship lounge. The FFD space is oftentimes WAY underutilized.

LIH

+1 here. This will be highly valuable for me ex-DFW/MIA.

And to your first point, as a decade-long suffering UA GS I can tell you that the entire FFL angle to CK is just so unbelievably impactful to my overall travel experience.

On an unrelated note. CLT-based CK agents continue to be amazing. I was going out of B16 yesterday and there were 3 simultaneous boarding processes going on at the end of B. CK agent grabs the mic about 5 minutes before boarding and pages me by name. Takes me to the side and then down the jet bridge to wait for the FA's to say we were good to board. Chatted about our families and the holidays. Just such a pleasant experience.

astebel

I am glad to hear about your nice experience. I had the antithesis to that at PHL. No weather impact. GAs gabbing, on their phones. Lane for 1-4 packed already and wheelchairs going through other lane. I stayed behind the wheelchairs. Lane still open. GA calls for CKs to board. I go up and hand her my ticket and she closes the band right on me. I asked, may I go through. She flung her head and very snotty said no you can't. You have to go in the other lane behind everyone. Group 1. All in one sentence. It was a very deliberate move on her part. Then she said she was going to gate check my bag because it was too wide. I told her it would fit in the sizer. Again she argued with me saying I had to zip it up. I said it was zipped and it an expandable bag so there was a little gap. She kept saying you have to zip it or gate check it. I put it in the sizer and it fit just fine. Then I asked, may I proceed. Not sure if it is just this airport. but not a good experience at all. Not saying I am "entitled" or being a snobby CK. I waited to be called although others went up and asked to preboard without disabilities and they just let them through. This was deliberate when I handed her my pass, she closed it. It would have been very easy to let me through and then I would say nice things, or nothing at all because that is what they are supposed to do. Not send me to the end of the group 1-4.

JackIs

Hi - is CK solely based on flying or is credit card spend a factor? If I spend 650k+ on multiple AA Citi cards every year, and fly about once or twice every month, and live out of GRR (non hub), what are my chances of CK? My trips are usually international and usually booked in First, unless it is clear my EXP will get me a comp. upgrade. AA Exec Card, AA Plat Select, and AA Plat Select Business are AA cards I hold.

davecraze

Both are a factor in the new LP regime (they are both generating LPs after all). No one can tell you how they are weighted between the two nowadays.

I put over a million LPs on my personal citi card and took only two long haul trips this year. I am sure there are others on the board that are skewed like that as well, so we may have some datapoints soon on what gets renewed. I personally think it’s doubtful I get renewed. I think it will require significantly more spend than that on cc alone.

davecraze

I certainly am not much of a DYKWIA type and would not have pressed the issue there but the executive liaison team would certainly be hearing from me in writing in regards to that gate agent if that happened to me.

dave_261

Setting aside the credit card LP's... If you travel 1-2x/month, mostly international, in first, your airfare spend would be well over $100k (assuming 18 trips @ $7,000). That alone should be more than enough for CK.

astebel

They most certainly did hear from me but what I want to try to do is to get us frequent flyers to continue to write to them offering suggestions about how to help the boarding process which has gotten out of hand. I made a couple of suggestions ---- oh and I did get 2500 miles for my experience which wasn't the point or needed but they have to hear more from us with constructive ways of dealing with it. Such as the good experiences and how those should be incorporated into new training. I wanted to ask this GA her name but I know they have so much power, if I did not comply or say anything she interpreted as hostile, security would have been called and I would have been taken off the flight, I don't like feeling that type of fear either from these GAs. Perhaps if they hear from others, these boarding issues will improve. I fly weekly or more and have only seen things worsen. I appreciated the response from the team but I think more of us need to get in touch.

snydert

Agreed. I give routine feedback.