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ARCHIVE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints, compensation and AA (master thread)

ARCHIVE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints, compensation and AA (master thread)

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Old Feb 12, 13, 8:26 pm
  #1  
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ARCHIVE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints, compensation and AA (master thread)

This might need to be moved, but I couldn't find a better place.

Trying to stay short:

Flight from Ireland back to US was delayed big time and resulted in several violations of EC 261/2004. Travel for 2 pax.

Contacted AA via online form. Within 2 weeks, received $500 travel vouchers for both tickets. Sent another message politely requesting they honor EC 261/2004, and send another $283 voucher (the difference to 600EUR). About another 2 weeks later, got $400 vouchers for both tickets. This all happened within October, and I considered it resolved. I got back more than the laws say, and more than the original ticket price in vouchers.

Before I heard anything back from AA, I also sent an online complaint to Commission for Aviation Regulation (CAR) in Ireland outlining the issue. I never heard anything back from that except the form auto-notify email. This might be important, keep reading.

Fast forward to today. I get an email from customer service, with the same name that was contained on all the voucher stuff that says:

Thank you for contacting American AirlinesCustomer Relations once again.
As you have correctly identified, you will be entitled to cash compensation of 600EUR. However, in order for us to process this payment, we will require the following information:
* Bank Name and Address
* Bank Account Number and Type
* Bank Sort Code
* Bank IBAN code
* Bank BIC/SWIFT code
Once you have provided this information, we would be able to finalize the payment of this claim.
*Infinion*, we apologize once more for the difficulties you experienced and look forward to a speedy resolution of this claim.


Has the normal from email address, name, all the tracking numbers and such, and the info about not replying to the email.

I find it hard to believe that they really want my bank numbers to do a refund. But, the only realistic way I have to respond is to go through the online form again and reference this, but I don't think I'm going to put my bank account numbers in there... They could send me a check, right?

Being paranoid, I changed all my passwords and I forwarded the message to [email protected] per the AA phishing page to see if they would verify authenticity.

If this is real, that means I stand to get back $900 vouchers on a <$750 ticket, plus 600EUR? Think I'll get back another 600EUR on the other ticket too? Has to be a mistake right? Or did CAR finally look at my complaint and tell AA they owed me cash?

Any thoughts? Anyone heard of something like that? Thanks.

Last edited by JDiver; Feb 27, 15 at 10:10 am Reason: Restore original post title
Infinion is offline  
Old Feb 12, 13, 10:15 pm
  #2  
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They probably heard from CAR and decided to refund you. Their system didn't catch the fact that they had already given you vouchers.

I believe that it would be unethical for you to take both. In your complaint to CAR, you probably didn't mention that they gave you vouchers, so it was misleading. If you want to take the cash (which you are entitled to under EU law), then return the vouchers.

I believe that direct deposit is normal in the EU. Their payments systems aren't stuck in the 1990s like ours.
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Old Feb 12, 13, 10:21 pm
  #3  
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Originally Posted by cbn42 View Post
They probably heard from CAR and decided to refund you. Their system didn't catch the fact that they had already given you vouchers.

I believe that it would be unethical for you to take both. In your complaint to CAR, you probably didn't mention that they gave you vouchers, so it was misleading. If you want to take the cash (which you are entitled to under EU law), then return the vouchers.

I believe that direct deposit is normal in the EU. Their payments systems aren't stuck in the 1990s like ours.
I didn't have vouchers when I contacted CAR. I think your theory is sound, and that's what I've decided must have happened too.
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Old Feb 12, 13, 10:45 pm
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Looks like a good result to me .... well done.
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Old Feb 12, 13, 10:48 pm
  #5  
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AA Right hand? Please meet AA left hand. You two apparently don't know each other.
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Old Feb 12, 13, 10:53 pm
  #6  
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Originally Posted by Djlawman View Post
AA Right hand? Please meet AA left hand. You two apparently don't know each other.
If you read the fine print on the travel vouchers, it says aa can't help you with them if you loose the number or the pin. So, maybe that means they're also difficult to even see in the system that they've given me vouchers for this issue before?
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Old Feb 13, 13, 10:39 am
  #7  
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Did some more research, and calmed my paranoia some. Had my company's sysadmin see if they thought my email at been compromised. Looked okay.

Did some research on the information they were requesting and learned way too much about international wire transfers. One post was correct, this is a fairly common thing to ask for when a European entity wants to send money.

So, sent them the international wire information from an account I don't use much. See what happens I guess.
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Old Feb 13, 13, 1:09 pm
  #8  
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This seems most apt for the AA forum as it has to do with the airline's compliance with EU regs. and the subsequent events concerning requests for bank numbers. I'll move it there. Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator, TravelBuzz.
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Old Feb 13, 13, 1:16 pm
  #9  
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Mexico, Technical Support and Feedback, The Suggestion Box and Talkboard Topics
 
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If we get a merger, all I can say is "Just you wait, 'enry 'iggins, just you wait!" it'll likely get worse.

Some browses allow one to look at the details on e-mail, and that might be worth a try just to see if it has a nominally legitimate source.

Originally Posted by Djlawman View Post
AA Right hand? Please meet AA left hand. You two apparently don't know each other.
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Old Feb 13, 13, 1:20 pm
  #10  
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Originally Posted by JDiver View Post
If we get a merger, all I can say is "Just you wait, 'enry 'iggins, just you wait!" it'll likely get worse.

Some browses allow one to look at the details on e-mail, and that might be worth a try just to see if it has a nominally legitimate source.
I've officially convinced myself the email is legitimate. Now, it may be (obviously is) in error of some sort, but it came from AA. If I hit the reply button, it will send to '[email protected]' Which, I assume will just bounce back anyway.

So, soliciting my bank numbers will only force me to send that info back to AA custom relation in some way (the online form in this case). So, either it is legitimate, or there's an inside job.

Either way, I'm going to see what happens. Just curious if there's a precedent for this since google couldn't tell me any more about it happening before.
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Old Feb 13, 13, 1:51 pm
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Infinion View Post
This might need to be moved, but I couldn't find a better place.

Trying to stay short:

Flight from Ireland back to US was delayed big time and resulted in several violations of EC 261/2004. Travel for 2 pax.

Contacted AA via online form. Within 2 weeks, received $500 travel vouchers for both tickets. Sent another message politely requesting they honor EC 261/2004, and send another $283 voucher (the difference to 600EUR). About another 2 weeks later, got $400 vouchers for both tickets. This all happened within October, and I considered it resolved. I got back more than the laws say, and more than the original ticket price in vouchers.
I would disagree with this; they have provided some vouchers but that is irrelevent, they are required to provide EUR600 in actual money. That the pretend money may have had a decent value if used with AA does not take away their legal obligations


Originally Posted by Infinion

Thank you for contacting American AirlinesCustomer Relations once again.
As you have correctly identified, you will be entitled to cash compensation of 600EUR. However, in order for us to process this payment, we will require the following information:
* Bank Name and Address
* Bank Account Number and Type
* Bank Sort Code
* Bank IBAN code
* Bank BIC/SWIFT code
Once you have provided this information, we would be able to finalize the payment of this claim.
*Infinion*, we apologize once more for the difficulties you experienced and look forward to a speedy resolution of this claim.


Has the normal from email address, name, all the tracking numbers and such, and the info about not replying to the email.

I find it hard to believe that they really want my bank numbers to do a refund. But, the only realistic way I have to respond is to go through the online form again and reference this, but I don't think I'm going to put my bank account numbers in there... They could send me a check, right?

Seems perfectly normal information for an international transfer.

Originally Posted by Infinion

If this is real, that means I stand to get back $900 vouchers on a <$750 ticket, plus 600EUR? Think I'll get back another 600EUR on the other ticket too? Has to be a mistake right? Or did CAR finally look at my complaint and tell AA they owed me cash?

Any thoughts? Anyone heard of something like that? Thanks.
If you are entitled to compensation under the regulation, then you are entitled to it; that they tried to avoid paying it by giving out vouchers is neither here nor there
Dave Noble is offline  
Old Feb 13, 13, 4:54 pm
  #12  
 
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Seems legitimate but probably not the brightest in light of security issues.

At least AA appears to be taking a more ethical approach to EU261 complaints than another (ahem) US carrier...

Delta (not the one I'm referring to above) does offer the same for AF irregularities (either € or vouchers)

In any case, I would email customer relations first before sending that info.
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Old Feb 13, 13, 5:26 pm
  #13  
 
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Originally Posted by Djlawman View Post
AA Right hand? Please meet AA left hand. You two apparently don't know each other.
Actually vouchers from AA don't meet EU legislation. The OP is due cold hard cash and the email from AA would seem genuine. In this it sounds like the OP will likely get both.

Having received EU compensation several times before, BIC and other similar banking details actually meet the requirements stated in the legislation.
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Old Feb 13, 13, 6:34 pm
  #14  
 
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Originally Posted by Infinion View Post
Did some more research, and calmed my paranoia some. Had my company's sysadmin see if they thought my email at been compromised. Looked okay.

Did some research on the information they were requesting and learned way too much about international wire transfers. One post was correct, this is a fairly common thing to ask for when a European entity wants to send money.

So, sent them the international wire information from an account I don't use much. See what happens I guess.
Your sysadmin should have been able to look at the message details to see what servers the email was routed through. This info can also help identify if it came from AA. If your company runs your email through a spam filtering service or appliance it also should also tell you which country the email came from which often helps give some piece of mind it is legit. Also, the reply to can be faked so be careful there.

Not to get too technical but it can be extremely hard to tell sometimes if a message is legit. If you are using a good external spam filter service it helps a lot.
mcgahat is offline  
Old Feb 13, 13, 10:10 pm
  #15  
 
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Originally Posted by mcgahat View Post
Your sysadmin should have been able to look at the message details to see what servers the email was routed through. This info can also help identify if it came from AA. If your company runs your email through a spam filtering service or appliance it also should also tell you which country the email came from which often helps give some piece of mind it is legit. Also, the reply to can be faked so be careful there.

Not to get too technical but it can be extremely hard to tell sometimes if a message is legit. If you are using a good external spam filter service it helps a lot.
I got caught up in a Eurostar snow/ice snafu a few years ago and had to buy a last minute BA ticket from CDG to LHR to meet up with my AA flight the next day. I got my train ticket back, the cost of the BA flight and some other compensation. Even though in the end I could have taken the Eurostar - the issue was they couldn't guarantee a seat and the flights were selling out so I bought something to guarantee I didn't miss my connection. That didn't void my right to compensation because I was still badly delayed. They sent me a cheque that time.
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