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GUIDE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 “EU” complaints, compensation and AA

GUIDE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 “EU” complaints, compensation and AA

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Old Nov 10, 20, 3:49 am   -   Wikipost
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Note update - 2016 June 10
EU clarification on EC261/2004
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...16)3502_en.pdf

Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishes common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights, and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 295/91.

AA email address for EC 261 claims: [email protected]

Code:
The regulation applies to any passenger:
 
 - departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to
 which the Treaty applies;
Code:
The protection accorded to passengers departing from or to an airport
 located in a Member State should be extended to those leaving an airport
 located in a third country for one situated in a Member State, when a
 Community carrier operates the flight and where a community carrier
 is defined as any carrier licensed to operate within that community.

Code:
- departing from an EU member state, or travelling to an EU member state
 - on an airline based in an EU member state if that person has:
 - a confirmed reservation on the flight, and
 - arrived in time for check-in as indicated on the ticket or communication
 from the airline airline, or, if no time is so indicated, no less than 45 minutes
 prior to the scheduled departure time of the flight
 or
 - have been transferred from the flight for which he/she held a reservation
 to some other flight unless
 - the passenger is travelling on a free or discounted ticket not available
 to the general public, other than a ticket obtained from a frequent flyer
 programme.
 
 It does not apply to helicopter flights, to any flight not operated by a
 fixed-wing aircraft, nor to flights from Gibraltar Airport.[1]
 
 (wikipedia)
Link to article on Wikipedia: "The Flight Delay Compensation Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 is a regulation establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding, flight cancellations, or long delays of flights. It repealed Regulation (EEC) No 295/91, and went into effect on 18 February 2005. It sets out the entitlements of air passengers when a flight that they intend to travel on is delayed or cancelled, or when they are denied boarding to such a flight due to overbooking, or when the airline is unable to accommodate them in the class they had booked." It applies to Member States and includes French overseas territories.

NOTE: Heretofore, the ruling only applied to flights leaving Europe on all airlines, or flights from anywhere to Europe, on European airlines. Most recently (July 2019), a new European Court of Justice ruling commands that even flights which connect to non-EU airlines, but were booked as one ticket from the EU must be compensated. (link to article on godsavethepoints.com)

Link to EC 261/2004 text in several languages.

Link to language (English) Adobe Portable Document Format (PDF) of EC 261/2004

Link to description by Air Passenger Rights a "multilingual consumer website explaining the rights of air passengers in the European Union."

Link to contact details of EC 261/2004 enforcement bodies

Link to English language EC 261/2004 compliaint form PDF

Email for EC claims at AA.com: [email protected] (verified Aug 2016, can take 4 weeks for a reply)

Link to BAEC Forum lengthy EC261/2004 thread.

Link to thisismoney.co.uk article explaining EC261/2004.

Link to travel sort.com blog on recovering EC261/2004 compensation from American Airlines.

Previous posts from this thread have been archived to ARCHIVE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints, compensation and AA (master thread)

“Despite all this, expect airlines to give you a hard time with your claim. File a claim on your own, but if you find yourself stonewalled or denied unfairly, enlisting a firm like AirHelp or Bott & Co can be huge, since they fight the case for you, in exchange for a 25% cut of the recovered cash. A 75% chunk of something is better than 100% of nothing.” (godsavethepoints.com)

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Old Jan 9, 18, 11:54 am
  #1  
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Compensation time

Hi All,

I filed an ec261 claim last October via the resolva website. AA replied within 3 weeks confirming my claim and made the offer of 600EUR or vouchers. Being based in the UK - I chose the cash, filled in the form, pdf'd it and returned it via email - on 10th November. I have heard nothing since and not received the BACS transfer..
Does anyone know how long it usually takes AA to 'pay out?
Are there any other options left for me?

Any advice appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
decowie1903 is offline  
Old Jan 9, 18, 1:08 pm
  #2  
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I would be contacting the airline back and querying what has happened to the payment

If for some reason AA doesn't pay up, then if you are in the UK, it is easy to claim using MCOL

I expect that there is just an error and when you contact the airline it will transfer the funds
Dave Noble is offline  
Old Feb 12, 18, 9:27 am
  #3  
 
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Trying not to be too ignorant here but I have a mailing address in the UK that I can use, re lots of relatives that would receive mailings, but I don't live in the UK. Can I still use MCOL? (Waiting on AA's EC261 reply but not expecting much).

Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
I would be contacting the airline back and querying what has happened to the payment

If for some reason AA doesn't pay up, then if you are in the UK, it is easy to claim using MCOL

I expect that there is just an error and when you contact the airline it will transfer the funds
thegrailer is offline  
Old Feb 24, 18, 12:20 pm
  #4  
 
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Hi all, thanks for the all the insights already. Would like to confirm that you believe the following situation is eligible for compensation under EC261:

- Award ticket (I booked it using my AA miles for a friend): AMS-PHL-LGA
- AMS-PHL arrives 1.5 hours late (late departure + headwinds), causing the friend to miss the last PHL-LGA of the day
- AA offers overnight hotel and first PHL-LGA flight next day
- Friend rejects offer as she needs to be in NYC that evening and takes Amtrak to NYC instead

Essentially the friend would arrive 15 hours later if she would have accepted the rebooking. Does this qualify? Many thanks for your feedback!

Last edited by GlobalMischa; Feb 24, 18 at 12:24 pm Reason: additional information
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Old Feb 24, 18, 12:56 pm
  #5  
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I am not sure. If the passenger had continued to New York with AA, then it would seem to be clear that compensation would be due ( unless departure was delayed due to an exempt reason )

How late was she in arriving into New York by taking Amtrak

I am not entirely certain that by effectively changing destination to PHL that she would be entitled to compensation
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Old Feb 24, 18, 1:02 pm
  #6  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
I am not sure. If the passenger had continued to New York with AA, then it would seem to be clear that compensation would be due ( unless departure was delayed due to an exempt reason )

How late was she in arriving into New York by taking Amtrak

I am not entirely certain that by effectively changing destination to PHL that she would be entitled to compensation
Thanks Dave; interesting point. She ended up arriving only 1.5 hours late at NY Penn vs the scheduled PHL-LGA
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Old Feb 24, 18, 2:38 pm
  #7  
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Originally Posted by GlobalMischa View Post
Hi all, thanks for the all the insights already. Would like to confirm that you believe the following situation is eligible for compensation under EC261:

- Award ticket (I booked it using my AA miles for a friend): AMS-PHL-LGA
- AMS-PHL arrives 1.5 hours late (late departure + headwinds), causing the friend to miss the last PHL-LGA of the day
- AA offers overnight hotel and first PHL-LGA flight next day
- Friend rejects offer as she needs to be in NYC that evening and takes Amtrak to NYC instead

Essentially the friend would arrive 15 hours later if she would have accepted the rebooking. Does this qualify? Many thanks for your feedback!
But... your friend voluntarily abandoned the air ticket at JFK, the ANS flight arriving 1.5 hours late (not 4.0 hours) and then on own account taking AMTRAK - I’m guessing no EC261 compensation will be due.
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Old Feb 25, 18, 12:28 am
  #8  
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Originally Posted by GlobalMischa View Post
Thanks Dave; interesting point. She ended up arriving only 1.5 hours late at NY Penn vs the scheduled PHL-LGA
In which case she is not entitled to any compensation anyway and whether she could be classed as voluntarily ending journey at PHL becomes a moot point

She would need to be at least 3 hours late arriving at the destination before any compensation could become due

She may potentially be able to claim the cost of the train off of the airline
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Old Feb 25, 18, 7:28 am
  #9  
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It is unclear to me whether this would qualify for EC 261/2004 delay compensation even if the friend had overnighted at PHL, in any event as AA would likely argue and more likely win on the argument that the headwinds on the TATL were an "extraordinary circumstance."

But, as it is, the friend chose to voluntarily terminate at PHL where the delay was only 1.5 hours. That is below any compensation threshold for a Type 3 flight and thus no compensation is due. The fact that had the friend continued on to LGA the next day, compensation would have been due is a red herring.

Doubtful that AA will retroactively cover the local transportation + Amtrak ticket, but AA might offer a customer service gesture of a few miles. Alternatively, it is more than likely that travel insurance would cover at least the Amtrak ticket.
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Old Feb 25, 18, 11:35 am
  #10  
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
It is unclear to me whether this would qualify for EC 261/2004 delay compensation even if the friend had overnighted at PHL, in any event as AA would likely argue and more likely win on the argument that the headwinds on the TATL were an "extraordinary circumstance."
I cannot see what doubt there would be; this type of situation where a delay on departure causes a misconnect has been ruled by court of appeal in the UK as being one where compensation is due - AA and EK were 2 airlines that tried to argue that a misconnect outside the EU was outside the regulation

The flight was delayed on departure ( according to the OP ) and then this caused a misconnect. Headwinds are not extraordinary
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Old Feb 25, 18, 6:35 pm
  #11  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
I cannot see what doubt there would be; this type of situation where a delay on departure causes a misconnect has been ruled by court of appeal in the UK as being one where compensation is due - AA and EK were 2 airlines that tried to argue that a misconnect outside the EU was outside the regulation

The flight was delayed on departure ( according to the OP ) and then this caused a misconnect. Headwinds are not extraordinary
Thanks again! It's this case, right? https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/uk-...sation-claims/ - good to know!
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Old Feb 25, 18, 9:38 pm
  #12  
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Originally Posted by GlobalMischa View Post
Thanks again! It's this case, right? https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/uk-...sation-claims/ - good to know!
The relevant case(s) are indeed Gahan vs Emirates and Buckley
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Old Feb 26, 18, 5:25 am
  #13  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
The relevant case(s) are indeed Gahan vs Emirates and Buckley
However, doesn't the rule specify that you must actually take the delayed flight in order to be eligible for compensation?
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Old Feb 26, 18, 11:27 am
  #14  
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Originally Posted by ShortDog View Post
However, doesn't the rule specify that you must actually take the delayed flight in order to be eligible for compensation?
The comment was in relation to the situation *if* the person had stayed overnight, that the court has ruled quite clearly on

If the person had taken the train and arrived 3+ hours late into New York, then I could see that it could be argued that compensation would be due, just wouldn't be a nice ruling on it

The passenger is entitled to re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity

so if a train would be a comparable transport condition , then could see that the passenger could claim that she only did what the airline should have provided anyway

In this case, it is easy since the passenger was only 90 minutes late at destination and so such aspects are irrelevent
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Old Feb 26, 18, 8:49 pm
  #15  
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Originally Posted by ShortDog View Post
However, doesn't the rule specify that you must actually take the delayed flight in order to be eligible for compensation?
Not really. If AA had canceled the connecting flight, it would still owe the money. AA has no basis to defend this. AA, at best, offered a delay of 15 hours At that point, it doesn't matter how the passenger decided to continue their journey as the failure would have already occurred.
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