ARCHIVE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints, compensation and AA (master thread)
Jan 26, 2015, 4:19 pm
#151
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SAN
Programs: Lots of faux metal
Posts: 6,425
Fight it!
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Last edited by JDiver; Jan 26, 2015 at 6:15 pm Reason: Deleted URL to this thread after merge
Jan 26, 2015, 4:20 pm
#152
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,604
What was the reason why the flight was cancelled?
If it was a maintenance issue, then indeed you are entitled to compensation under EC261 and the airline's defence has no standing
I take it that AA has reimbursed for hotel and meals?
If it was a maintenance issue, then indeed you are entitled to compensation under EC261 and the airline's defence has no standing
I take it that AA has reimbursed for hotel and meals?
Jan 26, 2015, 4:31 pm
#153
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York, Paris
Programs: AA ExPlat 4MM, AA Life Plat, Lufthansa FT, Delta Basic
Posts: 1,593
My girlfriend and I did ORD-CDG-ORD during the Christmas holiday on AA.
On the way back, our flight was cancelled. We were rerouted the next day, via JFK. No reasons were given for the cancellation, but weather was fine in CDG and in ORD.
I wrote to AA asking if I was entitled to compensation under EC261/2004. (This is perhaps irrelevant, but the ticket was bought with miles.)
Here's the response I got --
They then threw in a 200$ voucher (kind of ridiculously low given ticket prices for a trip like this was around 2600$ for two).
Seems like a lot people on this board have had similar experience with AA. What would you recommend doing? One issue on my side is that I am not 100% sure that the delay was not due to "exceptional circumstances". Their response is kind of vague....
On the way back, our flight was cancelled. We were rerouted the next day, via JFK. No reasons were given for the cancellation, but weather was fine in CDG and in ORD.
I wrote to AA asking if I was entitled to compensation under EC261/2004. (This is perhaps irrelevant, but the ticket was bought with miles.)
Here's the response I got --
They then threw in a 200$ voucher (kind of ridiculously low given ticket prices for a trip like this was around 2600$ for two).
Seems like a lot people on this board have had similar experience with AA. What would you recommend doing? One issue on my side is that I am not 100% sure that the delay was not due to "exceptional circumstances". Their response is kind of vague....
FIGHT IT !!! Do NOT use the voucher, better if you REFUSE it.
See my entries (and others') in the afore mentioned link (post 2). The posts in that thread give all the details.
Jan 26, 2015, 6:14 pm
#154
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
I've now added a wiki with resource links, including downloadable PDFs of EC 261/2004 and the complaint form (English language).
Tally ho!
Tally ho!
Last edited by JDiver; Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 pm
Jan 26, 2015, 6:21 pm
#155
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
AA is dispensing bull pucky once again. They hope you'll believe their bs, cash the voucher and go away.
From Air Passenger Rights website <link>:
From Air Passenger Rights website <link>:
FLIGHT CANCELLATION
In the event of flight cancellation or denied boarding the passengers concerned have the right to:
compensation totalling:
If the carrier offered you an alternative flight with a similar schedule, the compensation may be reduced by 50%.
With cancelled flights, you won't receive compensation if:
For cancellation due to extraordinary circumstances you may not have the right to compensation, the carrier must still offer you either:
Even in extraordinary circumstances, airlines must provide assistance when necessary, while you are waiting for alternative transport.
This Regulation is applicable to all worldwide airlines when departure takes place within the EU and, in the case of flights from outside the EU to a destination within the EU, only to airlines licensed in a Member State of the EU.
In the event of flight cancellation or denied boarding the passengers concerned have the right to:
- reimbursement of the cost of the ticket within seven days or a return flight to the first point of departure or re-routing to their final destination;
- care (refreshments, meals, hotel accommodation, transport between the airport and place of accommodation, two free telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails);
compensation totalling:
- EUR 250 for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less;
- EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometers, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres.
- EUR 600 for all other flights.
If the carrier offered you an alternative flight with a similar schedule, the compensation may be reduced by 50%.
With cancelled flights, you won't receive compensation if:
- the cancellation was due to extraordinary circumstances for example due to bad weather, or
- you were informed 2 weeks before the scheduled flight date, or
- you were offered an alternative for the same route with a similar schedule to the original one.
For cancellation due to extraordinary circumstances you may not have the right to compensation, the carrier must still offer you either:
- a ticket refund (in full or just the part you have not used)
- alternative transport to your final destination at the earliest opportunity or
- rebooking at a later date of your choice (subject to seat availability).
Even in extraordinary circumstances, airlines must provide assistance when necessary, while you are waiting for alternative transport.
This Regulation is applicable to all worldwide airlines when departure takes place within the EU and, in the case of flights from outside the EU to a destination within the EU, only to airlines licensed in a Member State of the EU.
Jan 26, 2015, 6:27 pm
#156
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Florida
Programs: AA LTG (EXP), Hilton Silver (Dia), Marriott LTP (PP), SPG LTG (P) > MPG LTPP
Posts: 11,329
My girlfriend and I did ORD-CDG-ORD during the Christmas holiday on AA.
On the way back, our flight was cancelled. We were rerouted the next day, via JFK. No reasons were given for the cancellation, but weather was fine in CDG and in ORD.
I wrote to AA asking if I was entitled to compensation under EC261/2004. (This is perhaps irrelevant, but the ticket was bought with miles.)
Here's the response I got --
They then threw in a 200$ voucher (kind of ridiculously low given ticket prices for a trip like this was around 2600$ for two).
Seems like a lot people on this board have had similar experience with AA. What would you recommend doing? One issue on my side is that I am not 100% sure that the delay was not due to "exceptional circumstances". Their response is kind of vague....
On the way back, our flight was cancelled. We were rerouted the next day, via JFK. No reasons were given for the cancellation, but weather was fine in CDG and in ORD.
I wrote to AA asking if I was entitled to compensation under EC261/2004. (This is perhaps irrelevant, but the ticket was bought with miles.)
Here's the response I got --
They then threw in a 200$ voucher (kind of ridiculously low given ticket prices for a trip like this was around 2600$ for two).
Seems like a lot people on this board have had similar experience with AA. What would you recommend doing? One issue on my side is that I am not 100% sure that the delay was not due to "exceptional circumstances". Their response is kind of vague....
Jan 26, 2015, 6:41 pm
#157
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,604
Just being in a thread called "AA again violating" doesn't necessarily mean it is
Jan 26, 2015, 7:51 pm
#158
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
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Posts: 62,948
He hasn't shared much here for us to chime in about, but from this thread he can use information and links provided to determine whether anything is due.
Jan 26, 2015, 8:39 pm
#159
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Portland
Posts: 11,572
This is really sounding like AA is denying all claims on the theory that many people won't follow-up. Those who do get paid only what they are due, while those who don't end up with something less. Not a lot of downside for AA to do this, and I think this is one of the rare circumstances where class action lawyers could actually make a positive difference. (I have no idea whether that route would be available in the UK).
Jan 26, 2015, 8:56 pm
#160
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: DL Gold, AA Plat, SPG Gold
Posts: 383
Has anyone had luck with the [email protected] email address? The is the first time I've seen it and am now considering forwarding my official claim form (already submitted to French regulators) to see if it gets a reply. I'd happily take the $1k voucher in lieu of cash, 600 euros in my case.
Jan 26, 2015, 9:25 pm
#161
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 8
Thanks all for your replies!
Unfortunately, I have no way to be certain for sure that the cancellation was not an "exceptional circumstance".
My understanding is that the ORD-CDG flight didn't arrive, so the CDG-ORD flight was cancelled, obviously they didn't have an aircraft. I don't know why ORD-CDG was cancelled, but given weather was fine, that there was no terrorist incident, no strike, ..., and these planes are old! mechanical is a good guess. Their answer doesn't clarify this completely.
I guess I will reply to AA, then fill in with the French regulator. It does seem like AA does not want to follow the regulation. I am not sure this regulation makes a lot of sense, but anyway I will try and take advantage of it. It is sad that companies find it best not to follow rules. (And I say this after several years as AA PLT)
Unfortunately, I have no way to be certain for sure that the cancellation was not an "exceptional circumstance".
My understanding is that the ORD-CDG flight didn't arrive, so the CDG-ORD flight was cancelled, obviously they didn't have an aircraft. I don't know why ORD-CDG was cancelled, but given weather was fine, that there was no terrorist incident, no strike, ..., and these planes are old! mechanical is a good guess. Their answer doesn't clarify this completely.
I guess I will reply to AA, then fill in with the French regulator. It does seem like AA does not want to follow the regulation. I am not sure this regulation makes a lot of sense, but anyway I will try and take advantage of it. It is sad that companies find it best not to follow rules. (And I say this after several years as AA PLT)
Jan 26, 2015, 9:28 pm
#162
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,604
Thanks all for your replies!
Unfortunately, I have no way to be certain for sure that the cancellation was not an "exceptional circumstance".
My understanding is that the ORD-CDG flight didn't arrive, so the CDG-ORD flight was cancelled, obviously they didn't have an aircraft. I don't know why ORD-CDG was cancelled, but given weather was fine, that there was no terrorist incident, no strike, ..., and these planes are old! mechanical is a good guess. Their answer doesn't clarify this completely.
I guess I will reply to AA, then fill in with the French regulator. It does seem like AA does not want to follow the regulation. I am not sure this regulation makes a lot of sense, but anyway I will try and take advantage of it. It is sad that companies find it best not to follow rules. (And I say this after several years as AA PLT)
Unfortunately, I have no way to be certain for sure that the cancellation was not an "exceptional circumstance".
My understanding is that the ORD-CDG flight didn't arrive, so the CDG-ORD flight was cancelled, obviously they didn't have an aircraft. I don't know why ORD-CDG was cancelled, but given weather was fine, that there was no terrorist incident, no strike, ..., and these planes are old! mechanical is a good guess. Their answer doesn't clarify this completely.
I guess I will reply to AA, then fill in with the French regulator. It does seem like AA does not want to follow the regulation. I am not sure this regulation makes a lot of sense, but anyway I will try and take advantage of it. It is sad that companies find it best not to follow rules. (And I say this after several years as AA PLT)
If you are happy with 2/3 of the payout, then if based in the USA, the easiest and least effort method may be simply to refer it to one of the companies that handle these claims
Jan 26, 2015, 10:09 pm
#163
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Portland
Posts: 11,572
I'd really like to know what it is that millions did which finally got a response from AA, because I have a clear-cut claim myself from December and got nowhere with the customer relations route. Several emails reiterating the facts and the rules, followed by the same form denials. I sent a couple tweets and got replies only that they were "sorry I was disappointed." Maybe you need more twitter followers? Maybe it was because I traveled on an award ticket (even though that doesn't actually matter)?
Has anyone had luck with the [email protected] email address? The is the first time I've seen it and am now considering forwarding my official claim form (already submitted to French regulators) to see if it gets a reply. I'd happily take the $1k voucher in lieu of cash, 600 euros in my case.
Has anyone had luck with the [email protected] email address? The is the first time I've seen it and am now considering forwarding my official claim form (already submitted to French regulators) to see if it gets a reply. I'd happily take the $1k voucher in lieu of cash, 600 euros in my case.
Jan 27, 2015, 11:04 am
#164
Join Date: Oct 2012
Programs: AA
Posts: 313
I am a bit disgusted by AA's method here...From the language, you can easily tell their story contradicts with the current EU UK Supreme court rulings. AA really shouldn't be doing this and I am wondering if there is a way to use their official emails and use it for, maybe, class-action suits? Otherwise, it is better for AA just to deny and see how it goes but that is just disgusting...
Jan 27, 2015, 11:45 am
#165
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: DL Gold, AA Plat, SPG Gold
Posts: 383
I am a bit disgusted by AA's method here...From the language, you can easily tell their story contradicts with the current EU UK Supreme court rulings. AA really shouldn't be doing this and I am wondering if there is a way to use their official emails and use it for, maybe, class-action suits? Otherwise, it is better for AA just to deny and see how it goes but that is just disgusting...
I'm not sure there's much we can do about it though aside from persistence in individual cases. According to this NY Times article there were already some active lawsuits in 2013, but I can't find more details, and the website of the lawyer they referenced (euroflightdelays.com) no longer works. Not being a lawyer myself, I don't even understand how anyone could try to enforce an EU law in US courts.