Refunds for suspended flights
Mar 16, 2020, 12:01 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Zealand
Programs: *A NZ Gold Elite for over 20 years previously SQ PPS and UA 1K
Posts: 282
Refunds for suspended flights
No Information available I can find yet on refunds for suspended flights. Let’s hope it’s clarified in the next few days. Conditions of carriage imply they may only offer a credit where the ticket purchased was on a non refundable fare.
However I would assume common law would prevail that if they suspend flights for 90 days and can’t provide the service sold they would have to offer cash or airpoints refunds however ticket was originally paid for as they are either not able to or are choosing not to provide the service sold.
It will be interesting to see how they choose to behave. If they are short term hard nosed and not reasonable I suspect they will suffer huge long term damage. They would also send upset customers no doubt to Jetstar and the disputes tribunal to hold them to account.
Let’s hope for reason and fairness. It’s clearly a difficult time for everyone and trying to take unfair advantage of the fact they hold customers cash in advance of having provided any service and then making them fight to get it back would not be a good look.
They will need lot of support once things get better not a whole lot of angry customers who feel they were unfairly treated. A great opportunity for them to show integrity and leadership or not.
However I would assume common law would prevail that if they suspend flights for 90 days and can’t provide the service sold they would have to offer cash or airpoints refunds however ticket was originally paid for as they are either not able to or are choosing not to provide the service sold.
It will be interesting to see how they choose to behave. If they are short term hard nosed and not reasonable I suspect they will suffer huge long term damage. They would also send upset customers no doubt to Jetstar and the disputes tribunal to hold them to account.
Let’s hope for reason and fairness. It’s clearly a difficult time for everyone and trying to take unfair advantage of the fact they hold customers cash in advance of having provided any service and then making them fight to get it back would not be a good look.
They will need lot of support once things get better not a whole lot of angry customers who feel they were unfairly treated. A great opportunity for them to show integrity and leadership or not.
Last edited by Kiwi_FF; Mar 16, 2020 at 1:37 am
Mar 16, 2020, 5:28 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Zealand
Programs: *A NZ Gold Elite for over 20 years previously SQ PPS and UA 1K
Posts: 282
Balance sheet challenges
The latest Balance sheet shows about $1b cash but a liability of about $1.4b for revenue paid in advance. So they need to face upto this and say what they intend to do.
There is an interesting parallel in the cruise industry where some cruise lines are offering for cancelled cruises the choice of 100% cash refund or 200% credit for future travel.
It’s clearly a tough time for them but they need to recognise that customers money held on behalf and not earned is not their own money and respond accordingly.
I think how AirNZ choose to respond in the next week will have a huge effect on their fortunes over the next 5-10 years in terms of loyalty and the very concept of making bookings in advance and taking the risk.
Lets hope wise heads prevail. They don’t take short term gain and win the battle only to then loose the war.
There is an interesting parallel in the cruise industry where some cruise lines are offering for cancelled cruises the choice of 100% cash refund or 200% credit for future travel.
It’s clearly a tough time for them but they need to recognise that customers money held on behalf and not earned is not their own money and respond accordingly.
I think how AirNZ choose to respond in the next week will have a huge effect on their fortunes over the next 5-10 years in terms of loyalty and the very concept of making bookings in advance and taking the risk.
Lets hope wise heads prevail. They don’t take short term gain and win the battle only to then loose the war.
Mar 16, 2020, 6:39 pm
#4
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: NZ*E
Posts: 810
The latest Balance sheet shows about $1b cash but a liability of about $1.4b for revenue paid in advance. So they need to face upto this and say what they intend to do.
There is an interesting parallel in the cruise industry where some cruise lines are offering for cancelled cruises the choice of 100% cash refund or 200% credit for future travel.
It’s clearly a tough time for them but they need to recognise that customers money held on behalf and not earned is not their own money and respond accordingly.
I think how AirNZ choose to respond in the next week will have a huge effect on their fortunes over the next 5-10 years in terms of loyalty and the very concept of making bookings in advance and taking the risk.
Lets hope wise heads prevail. They don’t take short term gain and win the battle only to then loose the war.
There is an interesting parallel in the cruise industry where some cruise lines are offering for cancelled cruises the choice of 100% cash refund or 200% credit for future travel.
It’s clearly a tough time for them but they need to recognise that customers money held on behalf and not earned is not their own money and respond accordingly.
I think how AirNZ choose to respond in the next week will have a huge effect on their fortunes over the next 5-10 years in terms of loyalty and the very concept of making bookings in advance and taking the risk.
Lets hope wise heads prevail. They don’t take short term gain and win the battle only to then loose the war.
appreciate that perspective but things are far from satisfactory since you would expect $ to come in with future sales and this is certainly not happening, they still need to pay for staff costs - even skeleton cost a bit - does not look good at all, but as someone said in another thread, the Government will shield them if worst come to worst - the nation does need an airline... even to supply cargo to and from other places
Mar 16, 2020, 9:28 pm
#5
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: New Zealand (when I'm home!)
Programs: Air NZ Elite
Posts: 1,218
An airline is one of the best investments our country can make. If we lost Air NZ, a lot of other industries would be lost as well. Air NZ are sticking around, in some capacity, that's for sure. Eventually, it will make it's money back again - making it an equally good investment for a bailout.
Mar 16, 2020, 9:30 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Zealand
Programs: *A NZ Gold Elite for over 20 years previously SQ PPS and UA 1K
Posts: 282
Hats off to Ticketmaster
tickets To the Book of Mormon tonight. Email in advance saying due to Government recommendation show is cancelled refunds will be paid automatically to your credit card within 2-5 days no need to contact them.
Very well handled, doing the right thing, no fuss, no bother excellent customer service ✅
Very well handled, doing the right thing, no fuss, no bother excellent customer service ✅
Mar 16, 2020, 9:42 pm
#7
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,645
tickets To the Book of Mormon tonight. Email in advance saying due to Government recommendation show is cancelled refunds will be paid automatically to your credit card within 2-5 days no need to contact them.
Very well handled, doing the right thing, no fuss, no bother excellent customer service ✅
Very well handled, doing the right thing, no fuss, no bother excellent customer service ✅
Mar 16, 2020, 10:27 pm
#8
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MSP
Programs: DL Plat, NZ Elite, QF Plat
Posts: 1,776
FYI - for those with Westpac credit cards with travel insurance, they are one of the few that don’t have a pandemic clause in their insurances. So if you have that and are eligible for insurance cover for your trip, you might be eligible to claim travel insurance. Sorry haven’t read the rest of the PDS fully and everyone will be in a different situation but can say there is no
pandemic clause which does help
pandemic clause which does help
Mar 16, 2020, 10:33 pm
#9
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: bne
Programs: Velocity Gold, AIRNZ Elite, Qantas Silver ,Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,320
Travel insurance
FYI - for those with Westpac credit cards with travel insurance, they are one of the few that don’t have a pandemic clause in their insurances. So if you have that and are eligible for insurance cover for your trip, you might be eligible to claim travel insurance. Sorry haven’t read the rest of the PDS fully and everyone will be in a different situation but can say there is no
pandemic clause which does help
pandemic clause which does help
They then send you a cover note
Mar 16, 2020, 11:09 pm
#10
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 115
FYI - for those with Westpac credit cards with travel insurance, they are one of the few that don’t have a pandemic clause in their insurances. So if you have that and are eligible for insurance cover for your trip, you might be eligible to claim travel insurance. Sorry haven’t read the rest of the PDS fully and everyone will be in a different situation but can say there is no
pandemic clause which does help
pandemic clause which does help
Mar 17, 2020, 12:33 am
#11
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: New Zealand (when I'm home!)
Programs: Air NZ Elite
Posts: 1,218
I am rallying behind most businesses right now, but when someone has an insurance policy, and adds clauses like that as "get out of jail free cards" I don't appreciate that. Pandemics are a basic thing to mention in an insurance policy so I don't believe for a moment it was not purposeful that they didn't specifically choose not to exclude them. Feels more like to me they wanted to include them, until they were inconvenient and not on the same level as the bird flu, but an actual pandemic, and so they had a get out of jail button to push. Insurance policies are something people rely on when they are at their most vulnerable, it's not nice.
Mar 17, 2020, 12:34 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Zealand
Programs: *A NZ Gold Elite for over 20 years previously SQ PPS and UA 1K
Posts: 282
What insurers being evasive and ducking for cover, never....
I don't believe that clause would apply. There is no Government restriction on AirNZ flying anywhere.
AirNZ (acting in the best interests of their shareholders rather than customers which is fair enough) have understandably made a commercial decision to not fly the suspended routes given the extreme drop in demand. It's a commercial decision by an operator right now, not a Government mandate.
AirNZ also seem to have decided to try and keep money they have not earnt by refusing refunds for a service they were paid for but choose not to perform, an interesting position to take (for customers and the concepts of loyalty and fairness) but again certainly in their shareholder interests.
Thats not to say insurance companies would not try and wiggle out later on if airlines go into administration in a few months time. I've made claim on our travel insurer tonight for flights that are now suspended and that AirNZ say they won't refund only credit and it must be used within 12 months.
I must say also I think AirNZ under the Consumer Guarantee act are required to refund as they are (understandably) unwilling to provide the service contracted.
I would hope they choose reason over litigation to resolve.
AirNZ (acting in the best interests of their shareholders rather than customers which is fair enough) have understandably made a commercial decision to not fly the suspended routes given the extreme drop in demand. It's a commercial decision by an operator right now, not a Government mandate.
AirNZ also seem to have decided to try and keep money they have not earnt by refusing refunds for a service they were paid for but choose not to perform, an interesting position to take (for customers and the concepts of loyalty and fairness) but again certainly in their shareholder interests.
Thats not to say insurance companies would not try and wiggle out later on if airlines go into administration in a few months time. I've made claim on our travel insurer tonight for flights that are now suspended and that AirNZ say they won't refund only credit and it must be used within 12 months.
I must say also I think AirNZ under the Consumer Guarantee act are required to refund as they are (understandably) unwilling to provide the service contracted.
I would hope they choose reason over litigation to resolve.
Mar 17, 2020, 12:47 am
#13
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 115
I don't believe that clause would apply. There is no Government restriction on AirNZ flying anywhere.
AirNZ (acting in the best interests of their shareholders rather than customers which is fair enough) have understandably made a commercial decision to not fly the suspended routes given the extreme drop in demand. It's a commercial decision by an operator right now, not a Government mandate.
AirNZ also seem to have decided to try and keep money they have not earnt by refusing refunds for a service they were paid for but choose not to perform, an interesting position to take (for customers and the concepts of loyalty and fairness) but again certainly in their shareholder interests.
Thats not to say insurance companies would not try and wiggle out later on if airlines go into administration in a few months time. I've made claim on our travel insurer tonight for flights that are now suspended and that AirNZ say they won't refund only credit and it must be used within 12 months.
I must say also I think AirNZ under the Consumer Guarantee act are required to refund as they are (understandably) unwilling to provide the service contracted.
I would hope they choose reason over litigation to resolve.
AirNZ (acting in the best interests of their shareholders rather than customers which is fair enough) have understandably made a commercial decision to not fly the suspended routes given the extreme drop in demand. It's a commercial decision by an operator right now, not a Government mandate.
AirNZ also seem to have decided to try and keep money they have not earnt by refusing refunds for a service they were paid for but choose not to perform, an interesting position to take (for customers and the concepts of loyalty and fairness) but again certainly in their shareholder interests.
Thats not to say insurance companies would not try and wiggle out later on if airlines go into administration in a few months time. I've made claim on our travel insurer tonight for flights that are now suspended and that AirNZ say they won't refund only credit and it must be used within 12 months.
I must say also I think AirNZ under the Consumer Guarantee act are required to refund as they are (understandably) unwilling to provide the service contracted.
I would hope they choose reason over litigation to resolve.
Mar 17, 2020, 1:45 am
#14
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 23
on the same boat as you with a June 20 booking that I can no longer find on the booking engine. On my AirNZ app it doesn’t say it’s cancelled tho, I still have my seat
Mar 17, 2020, 2:00 am
#15
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,645
Assuming in mean time just zeroed the availability.