How many times have you been upgraded on AF/KL ?
Dec 4, 2016, 9:47 am
#677
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
I got my hands on expertflyer and the flight availability tool. It's quite easy to predict the upgrade on Short-haul and medium on KLM after some investigation.
I discovered that once KLM has sold all its economy seats, they start moving some J inventory to Y.
So if you see no inventory in J and just 1 seat or 2 in Y while the seatmap shows lots of space in J but few seats taken (so they can't shrink too much the J section), then you can figure that they will need to upgrade a few from Y.
I just verified the theory yesterday
I discovered that once KLM has sold all its economy seats, they start moving some J inventory to Y.
So if you see no inventory in J and just 1 seat or 2 in Y while the seatmap shows lots of space in J but few seats taken (so they can't shrink too much the J section), then you can figure that they will need to upgrade a few from Y.
I just verified the theory yesterday
Dec 4, 2016, 5:33 pm
#678
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 183
I got my hands on expertflyer and the flight availability tool. It's quite easy to predict the upgrade on Short-haul and medium on KLM after some investigation.
I discovered that once KLM has sold all its economy seats, they start moving some J inventory to Y.
So if you see no inventory in J and just 1 seat or 2 in Y while the seatmap shows lots of space in J but few seats taken (so they can't shrink too much the J section), then you can figure that they will need to upgrade a few from Y.
I just verified the theory yesterday
I discovered that once KLM has sold all its economy seats, they start moving some J inventory to Y.
So if you see no inventory in J and just 1 seat or 2 in Y while the seatmap shows lots of space in J but few seats taken (so they can't shrink too much the J section), then you can figure that they will need to upgrade a few from Y.
I just verified the theory yesterday
Dec 5, 2016, 3:46 am
#679
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
I have no idea but on a couple of occasions now (at least one verified in person), the Biz section was far from all sold and EF was showing no inventory in J and 2 seats in Y.
We would need to ask revenue management why
We would need to ask revenue management why
Dec 5, 2016, 5:03 am
#680
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,412
But EF is not 100% reliable, since you have to choose your POS to be US or UK, which is only really relevant if your flight is departing from those countries, and even then not necessarily since tickets can still be sold with your destination as the POS (in case of a return leg of a r/t ticket), or in other countries for connecting flights.
Dec 5, 2016, 9:05 am
#681
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
But EF is not 100% reliable, since you have to choose your POS to be US or UK, which is only really relevant if your flight is departing from those countries, and even then not necessarily since tickets can still be sold with your destination as the POS (in case of a return leg of a r/t ticket), or in other countries for connecting flights.
Dec 5, 2016, 10:58 am
#683
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
I will test with onboard experience, see what EF says and what I see onboard. I'm also checking the inventory with the ita matrix and finally KLM's website.
I have 6 flights for myself plus 4 in my close family to get some feedbacks before the end of the year. Currently monitoring a short-haul I have on saturday were all Y inventory is gone and only J left, confirmed by KLM's website, I've setup alerts for Y inventory to observe the shift and will check onboard for confirmation.
I have 6 flights for myself plus 4 in my close family to get some feedbacks before the end of the year. Currently monitoring a short-haul I have on saturday were all Y inventory is gone and only J left, confirmed by KLM's website, I've setup alerts for Y inventory to observe the shift and will check onboard for confirmation.
Dec 10, 2016, 8:26 pm
#684
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
The seat map is not a reliable way of seeing how many seats are unsold. Many people do not bother to reserve seats (and it's possible to reserve a seat without buying a ticket if you have a confirmed but unticketed reservation).
When the flight fills up, KL converts J seats to Y seats because 3 Y seats can be sold instead of 2 J seats but the full J fare is less than fifty per cent higher than the full Y fare.
They might decide not to do this if they think they can force last minute flyers to buy J instead of Y or if they need extra crew for the extra pax they can squeeze into Y.
The point of sale is theoretically a concern but once the flight is nearly full it isn't important anymore where the travel agent who wants to buy the last seat lives. Also the point of sale is not about the origin or destination of the flight. The point of sale is where the TA or ticket desk is based. Some online TAs do use the origin as the default PoS but not all.
When the flight fills up, KL converts J seats to Y seats because 3 Y seats can be sold instead of 2 J seats but the full J fare is less than fifty per cent higher than the full Y fare.
They might decide not to do this if they think they can force last minute flyers to buy J instead of Y or if they need extra crew for the extra pax they can squeeze into Y.
The point of sale is theoretically a concern but once the flight is nearly full it isn't important anymore where the travel agent who wants to buy the last seat lives. Also the point of sale is not about the origin or destination of the flight. The point of sale is where the TA or ticket desk is based. Some online TAs do use the origin as the default PoS but not all.
Last edited by Calchas; Dec 10, 2016 at 8:35 pm
Dec 20, 2016, 1:18 pm
#688
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MME (midway between NCL and LBA)
Programs: BA Gold, AF/KL Gold, Hilton Gold, Nordic Choice Gold
Posts: 743
210 S/H segments on KL in the past 4 years, around half of these will have been on Cityhopper.
2 upgrades (both 3 years ago on AMS-ARN). One of these was a satisfying gate upgrade to J when boarding with a colleague.
2 upgrades (both 3 years ago on AMS-ARN). One of these was a satisfying gate upgrade to J when boarding with a colleague.
Dec 25, 2016, 3:01 am
#689
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
One more OpUp for me last week as a AMS-TLS flight was completely full.
I was surprised as I was travelling with a non status family member on a different PNR but had called ahead the Plat line in order to link the 2 PNR.
While when I went to the desk they seemed to discover that fact and had already processed with the upgrade.
It wasn't a big deal as I was taken to row 1 while we were supposed to be row 2 and didn't asked them to revert the change.
I was surprised as I was travelling with a non status family member on a different PNR but had called ahead the Plat line in order to link the 2 PNR.
While when I went to the desk they seemed to discover that fact and had already processed with the upgrade.
It wasn't a big deal as I was taken to row 1 while we were supposed to be row 2 and didn't asked them to revert the change.
Dec 25, 2016, 4:18 am
#690
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: France
Programs: FB Plat for Life, UAMP, BAEC, Accor ALL Platinum, Marriott silver, Hilton, Meliá silver.
Posts: 3,120
Regarding the rest of your story, please understand that linking PNR's is an urban legend. PNR cannot be linked.
The only thing they can do is put a remark in the file, but there is no linking as such.
No machine will "see" that you are travelling together. Only staff opening the file will be able to see it (if they pay attention and read the comments).