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Old Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction

As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.

On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).

As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.

Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.

Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points

As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).

For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).

The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).

Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.

The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.

Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)

The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.

Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.

Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).

Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)

Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).

This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.

Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.

Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year

FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).

I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP). This is only applicable in the first year.

Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)

Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
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Old Dec 18, 2017, 4:33 pm
  #841  
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
The minimum amount of level miles earned by a domestic (AF) flight is 100 Level Miles, where as the minimum amount of level miles earned by an international flight is 150 Level Miles.
FYI, it’s 125, not 100. But that doesn’t change life
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Old Dec 18, 2017, 6:49 pm
  #842  
 
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Originally Posted by siw
I became Platinum in September 2017 and will carryover 9,858 Level Miles to 2018. I have flights booked in Feburary 2018 which will get me to 110,265 Level Miles. I judge it sensible to make the most of the one off conversion of 1,000 Level Miles to 5 XP on the 1st April 2018. So would it be sensible to do some extra flight in Q1 2018 to get myself to 120,000 Level Miles and thus have 600 XP, which is 2 years of Platinum in the bank? I worked out that I can do a C rtn from LHR via CDG/AMS to somewhere less than 750 miles to get 7,500 Level Miles. And likewise a Y (75% sub-booking class) route for 2,252 Level Miles, to get a total of 120,017 LM (where the trivial 17 LM are omitted from the conversion). Could even be crazy and do 8 more 7,500 LM rtn trips (two per weekend) to net 180,017 LM for 3 years of Platinum in the bank for the XP converstion but struggling to find the best schedules and cheapest prices.

Are others doing extra flights to make the most of the 1st April conversion rate?
Yes, it’s a very generous conversation rate. I am taking in some extra flights to build my XP points up since I will be out of action for a few months later this year after getting an operation on my back.

I have figured out a method that would allow someone to gain over 300 XP (308 actually) for a total cost of £1375 and only having to stay away from home for one night total. I will gain a lot of XP in the first 3 months of the year due to work flights and also some long weekends booked with my wife so I will not be able to use my method as much as I would like, however I will still accumulate well over 300 XP on segments alone.


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Old Dec 18, 2017, 7:41 pm
  #843  
siw
 
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Thanks for the replies. I’ve always gained status by Level Miles and not number of segments because my flying is mostly business class long haul with one or two intra European economy and business class trips.
So the flights I am booked in Q1 2018 are long haul business class: 1 one-way on VN and 3 South America returns on AZ. It is the AZ flights with their 200% cabin class earn percent that is gaining the vast majority of the Level Miles.

Last edited by siw; Dec 18, 2017 at 8:08 pm
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Old Dec 18, 2017, 9:11 pm
  #844  
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Based on all your answers and some calcs I see that it is better not to do those intra-European flights, but the long hauls on AZ are more profitable in the current system (when only considering status via Level Miles):

My AZ (I 200%) high cabin class flights are more profitable in the old FB system:
LHR-FCO-SCL rtn 33,176LM / 102XP
2.11 * 33,176LM = 70,000LM
2.94 * 102XP = 300XP
(1.81 * 33,176LM = 60,000LM so do for one-off conversion as 1.81 < 2.11 thus doing this).

But for low cabin class earning flights the new system is more profitable, e.g. VN (D 125%):
LHR-SGN rtn 15,826LM / 72XP
4.42 * 15,826LM = 70,000LM
4.17 * 72XP = 300XP
(3.79 * 15,826LM = 60,000LM so do for one-off conversion as 3.79 < 4.42 but unable to do this).

The new system is also better for the longest distance intra-European business flights, where AF-KL had a flat 250% cabin class bonus:
LHR-AMS-TLV rtn 14,016LM / 78XP
3.85 * 78XP = 300XP
4.99 * 14,016LM = 70,000LM
(4.28 * 14,016LM = 60,000LM so don’t do for one-off conversion as 4.28 > 3.85).
Notice that more XP is earnt on a one stop to TLV than a direct to SGN.

On intra-European flights of flight distances less than 750 miles, which is the AF-KL lower limit, the new system is also better, e.g.
LHR-CDG-FRA rtn 7,500LM / 60XP
5 * 60XP = 300XP
9.33 * 7,500LM = 70,000LM
(8 * 7,500LM = 60,000LM so don’t do for one-off conversion as 8 > 5).

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Old Dec 18, 2017, 11:55 pm
  #845  
 
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When it comes to partner flights and XP, I think it would be better to wait until they actually update their partner pages. There are still some open questions (such as: long-haul domestic flights like MSP-HNL on Delta, whether domestic US / China first class counts as business class or first class, etc.).
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Old Dec 19, 2017, 2:27 am
  #846  
 
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I still don't get it what the idea behind new miles allocation is. 4 cents per EUR for airlines tickets is just nothing compared say to co-branded bank cards (in Russia we have 1 to 2 (or even 4 during promo time) miles per USD/ EUR spent.
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Old Dec 19, 2017, 2:45 am
  #847  
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Originally Posted by Keter
I still don't get it what the idea behind new miles allocation is. 4 cents per EUR for airlines tickets is just nothing compared say to co-branded bank cards
You don't get 4 cents per Euro (That would be a phenomenal financial return! I'm getting something like 0,4 cents per Euro on my savings accounts!)

You get 4 MILES per Euro spent.
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Old Dec 19, 2017, 2:49 am
  #848  
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Originally Posted by Sjondorn
When it comes to partner flights and XP, I think it would be better to wait until they actually update their partner pages.
I'm not sure that they will.

XPs are earned based on a single table, so instead of replicating that table on each partner page, there will be one place to look it up.


Originally Posted by Sjondorn
There are still some open questions (such as: long-haul domestic flights like MSP-HNL on Delta, whether domestic US / China first class counts as business class or first class, etc.).
Agreed, there appears already to be some discrepancy between the stated earning rates amongst various airlines, if what various users have reported back from various unofficial twitter/facebook conversations turns out to be accurate, but in general, I don't think much - if anything - in the published XP table will change. I certainly don't expect there to be multiple derogations from the table to the extent that each partner will have their own XP table.
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Old Dec 19, 2017, 6:02 am
  #849  
 
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Originally Posted by Keter
I still don't get it what the idea behind new miles allocation is. 4 cents per EUR for airlines tickets is just nothing compared say to co-branded bank cards (in Russia we have 1 to 2 (or even 4 during promo time) miles per USD/ EUR spent.
It's not as much that 4 miles per EUR fare is bad (it's mostly somewhat worse than before, but not by that much overall), it's more like 2+ miles per EUR spent on CC is very good.
I guess it's a function of rubel devaluation as well as Russia being out of EU and not hit by CC processing fee limits.

Originally Posted by Sjondorn
When it comes to partner flights and XP, I think it would be better to wait until they actually update their partner pages. There are still some open questions (such as: long-haul domestic flights like MSP-HNL on Delta, whether domestic US / China first class counts as business class or first class, etc.).
I dunno if it's to do with partner pages. There is already a table saying which fare falls under which cabin class, and while I guess this might eventually change, for now I think it will stay the same.
Overall there are 2 questions that need to be confirmed
  1. Is domestic always domestic, even if >2000mi
  2. Is there no credit in XP for non-earning classes on partners.
That's about it.
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Old Dec 19, 2017, 6:36 am
  #850  
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Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
I
Overall there are 2 questions that need to be confirmed
  1. Is domestic always domestic, even if >2000mi
  2. Is there no credit in XP for non-earning classes on partners.
That's about it.
People have reported that Tarom or other airlines may have different domestic rates than the single value of the table, but as of now there has been no talk of having different domestic bands. (I think it would make sense, but I'm not sure I'd set it as high as 2000 miles. And if they do introduce a "higher" band, it's still unlikely to address all the complaints that would arise from the move)

Of course there will be no earning of XPs for non-earning classes. Otherwise, you would have the incongruous ability (although it would be challenging, for sure, but not impossible!) to earn status in Flying Blue despite never accruing Award Miles for those flights...

[I mean, there are many other obvious things not explicitly stated, such as that, in the new programme just as in the current one, it's not enough to just book the flight - you also have to actually board the flight and complete each leg in order to obtain the Level Miles/Segments/XPs/Award Miles, etc etc etc. Additionally, in the new programme, just as in the current one, you can only claim Level Miles/Segments/XPs/Award Miles for flights booked and flown in the name of the FB account holder. etc etc etc]
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Old Dec 19, 2017, 8:04 am
  #851  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
You say the "ticket price" is €1687; your choice of terminology indicates that all charges, fees, and taxes - including YQ - are included.

Can you indicate the explicit breakdown of the ticket price from the website, like this?

(As I have no longhaul KL bookings, and therefore no separate YQ surcharges, I cannot verify your claim based on my bookings)
Sorry for the late reply. I don't get the chance to comment as often as I would like.

This was for a hypothetical booking.
By "ticket price" I meant the item as indicated on the KLM website so this is excluding all surcharges etc. See screenshot.
It appears you answered the question in a later post saying that the KLM website is, and has been for a while, buggy when calculating mileage potential. My question has thus been answered and I will make sure to check on future trips (nothing booked yet after the change) to see what the difference is.

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Old Dec 20, 2017, 1:36 am
  #852  
 
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From FB calculator (below 4/6/7/8 Miles per Euro spent).
Based on ticket price including base fare and carrier imposed surcharge but excluding governement-imposed taxes and fees. Ticket purchased in another currency than € will be converted into € using an industry standard rate.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 3:45 am
  #853  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
CDG-LHR is ~1850 miles though, so it all depends on how much flights and miles will you have in total from Q1 2018.
If you can do CDG-LHR-CDG, and it's the only flight you'll do, you'll earn 2 segments and ~3700 level miles.

Therefore you'll get 15XP from miles, and not 14 from segments, that assuming they will not do proportial XP from miles (which they probably won't).
If you can do CDG-AMS-LHR-AMS-CDG, you'll get 35XP as from 7500 miles, instead of 28 as from 4 segments.
If you do Y, you'll get 14/28 from segments (or 21 if you connect on one direction only).

If you have any other flights, it works roughly like this, if your average mileage earning per leg is less than 1400 miles, you'll get more by segment. If your average mileage earning is more than 1400 miles per leg, you'll get more by mile, except in rare cases where the math works against you, like 2800 miles for 2 segments.





This.
With that in mind, siw, it would make sense to hunt miles over segments, however! I agree with Ditto that it doesn't make that much sense.
You'll have 550XP converted with no extra flights. This means you'll need 50 more XP to get to your target of 2 platinum years. Your noted C return via AMS to somewhere will gain you only 7500 miles pre-change, but it will gain you 60XP post-change. So it's better to not chase the extra 10,000 miles.
Thanks for that.

In January, I have a schedule that has now changed dramatically due to a client.

Will be doing XSH (TGV Air whereby it counts as a segment for me) > CDG > Ams > Glasgow
Return is LHR > CDG > XSH

So under old system it's 5 segments. I'm buying just Economy off the AF website.

The new system will convert, I believe those segments to 35 XP. Am I correct?
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 4:00 am
  #854  
 
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I count 25.

Edit: I didn't notice they're before april, in which case indeed 35 due to the conversion.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 4:01 am
  #855  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 177
Originally Posted by CyBeR
I count 25.

Edit: unless they're before april, in which case indeed 35 due to the conversion.
OK. I am lost again. I thought that each segment was being converted to 7XP???
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