Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#766
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zanzibar
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 1,319
I spend between 10 & 20K a month on my platinum card but I use it for my company a lot. And still I have to pay the fee. I am actually thinking of dropping it next year as I have no need for the XP points and my girl can live fine without platinum status...
#767
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
What is a good moment to try? Spending on my and my wife's co-card together is a significant six digit amount. The card has some value for us, I do actually make use of the concierge service from time to time, various insurance covers every 18 months, and - probably the most convenient - as long as we have the card my wife is also Platinum for life, which she enjoys when traveling alone. She would qualify on her own in many years, but not always. Through the card she has that. Obviously many FB miles come through the spending, although not that many level miles (tickets for my professional trips, which are the ones bringing in the segments and level miles, are not paid with this card but through our corporate TA). But is that worth 570 EUR? I have second thoughts.
*: Although one would also need to bring into the equation the value that you would get from another card with different perks.
#768
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,412
#769
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
#770
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
That was so bad I swapped to the FB Amex! (And no longer have that )
#771
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,412
I seem to recall having an ABN Amro Mastercard ~10 years ago or so that allowed you to pick (exceptionally crappy) items from an online catalogue on the basis of points awarded linked to spend. (All I can remember now is a selection of Mastercard-branded FIFA World Cup 2006 tie-in merchandise)
That was so bad I swapped to the FB Amex! (And no longer have that )
That was so bad I swapped to the FB Amex! (And no longer have that )
I have the ABN Amro Gold Mastercard since it's practically free with my account, I think except for car rentals (since it has some excess coverage) I probably charge around 1K per year on it...
#772
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
I don't know about the Dutch market but, as far as the French market is concerned, this is not correct. "Premium"-style visa/mastercard credit cards come with insurance/assistance perks. If you mean that there is no competition for cards with frequent flyer perks, that may well be right. But then one still needs to calculate whether the points are worth a steep annual fee. For someone with San Gottardo's level of expense, I would have thought that it would probably make sense. For someone with my level of expense, it probably does not.
#773
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
I don't know about the Dutch market but, as far as the French market is concerned, this is not correct. "Premium"-style visa/mastercard credit cards come with insurance/assistance perks. If you mean that there is no competition for cards with frequent flyer perks, that may well be right. But then one still needs to calculate whether the points are worth a steep annual fee. For someone with San Gottardo's level of expense, I would have thought that it would probably make sense. For someone with my level of expense, it probably does not.
#774
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
With a "significant six digit amount" put on the card, it would be difficult for it not to be worth EUR570 unless you make no use of the perks and struggle to use the award miles that you get from elsewhere* but, clearly, the value increases all the more if you can get the fee reduced or waived. IMO, it is when one's spending is in the low 5 digit figures that the value of the card is far less obvious.
*: Although one would also need to bring into the equation the value that you would get from another card with different perks.
*: Although one would also need to bring into the equation the value that you would get from another card with different perks.
That is a "very significant six digit amount" (=sounds like more than I and my wife spend together on our cards)
#775
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
Another interesting concern: How will I earn Miles on a ST-issued ticket which includes AF/KL-marketed flights?
E.g. ticket issued by CZ, most long-haul flights are CZ-marketed, but it does include AF/KL-marketed flights, for example AMS-PAR. How much Miles will I get for that segment?
E.g. ticket issued by CZ, most long-haul flights are CZ-marketed, but it does include AF/KL-marketed flights, for example AMS-PAR. How much Miles will I get for that segment?
#776
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Programs: BA GGL, TK*G EL, KL P ELPL, ex AB P, ex LH/LX Sen, HHonors D4L, Bonvoy P
Posts: 1,647
See above. The "double extension" doesn't gain you much extra; only 3 months, in comparison to the current case.
This is because the current system allows for as much as 27 months of status (all of the rest of the current calendar year, all of the next calendar year, and 3 months grace period of the calendar year after that), while the new system only allows for fixed 15 months of status (all of the brand-new immediately-started membership year, and 3 months grace period thereafter)
The real one-off benefit on offer in March/April 2019 is to get better recognition of level miles and segments, thereby "boosting" your rollover potential. Without rollovers, you are not really effectively extending your status period at all (albeit that you may get a higher status in between, as part of the conversion; if you don't manage to "trip" a faster status upgrade, you will actually DECREASE YOUR STATUS PERIOD).
This is because the current system allows for as much as 27 months of status (all of the rest of the current calendar year, all of the next calendar year, and 3 months grace period of the calendar year after that), while the new system only allows for fixed 15 months of status (all of the brand-new immediately-started membership year, and 3 months grace period thereafter)
The real one-off benefit on offer in March/April 2019 is to get better recognition of level miles and segments, thereby "boosting" your rollover potential. Without rollovers, you are not really effectively extending your status period at all (albeit that you may get a higher status in between, as part of the conversion; if you don't manage to "trip" a faster status upgrade, you will actually DECREASE YOUR STATUS PERIOD).
#777
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
Any time you go up in status, your anniversary date shifts to the date you took the flight that elevated your status.
The change from Level Miles/Segments to XPs on 1 April 2018 will only change membership years for the very few people who find that they go up in status as a result of the Level Miles/Segments to XP conversion. This does NOT apply to you
#778
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Programs: BA GGL, TK*G EL, KL P ELPL, ex AB P, ex LH/LX Sen, HHonors D4L, Bonvoy P
Posts: 1,647
The only thing that can change your status year is if you go up in status.
Any time you go up in status, your anniversary date shifts to the date you took the flight that elevated your status.
The change from Level Miles/Segments to XPs on 1 April 2018 will only change membership years for the very few people who find that they go up in status as a result of the Level Miles/Segments to XP conversion. This does NOT apply to you
Any time you go up in status, your anniversary date shifts to the date you took the flight that elevated your status.
The change from Level Miles/Segments to XPs on 1 April 2018 will only change membership years for the very few people who find that they go up in status as a result of the Level Miles/Segments to XP conversion. This does NOT apply to you
#780
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 177
Afternoon all
I'm getting very confused with the new system; the FB calculator and how flights taken between Jan and March next year are not converting to what the calculator says.
Currently, I'm trying to get some cast iron answers out of the team on Twitter but what they're saying and what the calculator says makes no sense at all!
The example I've given them is that if I take a Business class ticket from CDG to LHR how many points does it convert to from the old to new system. They are saying that it's 7 XP. But according to the FB calculator it's 15 points!
I thought I had my plans figured out for next year but with what they are saying it's totally thrown me back and I have no idea what to believe anymore!
Anyone have any better knowledge of this???
I'm getting very confused with the new system; the FB calculator and how flights taken between Jan and March next year are not converting to what the calculator says.
Currently, I'm trying to get some cast iron answers out of the team on Twitter but what they're saying and what the calculator says makes no sense at all!
The example I've given them is that if I take a Business class ticket from CDG to LHR how many points does it convert to from the old to new system. They are saying that it's 7 XP. But according to the FB calculator it's 15 points!
I thought I had my plans figured out for next year but with what they are saying it's totally thrown me back and I have no idea what to believe anymore!
Anyone have any better knowledge of this???