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Old Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction

As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.

On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).

As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.

Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.

Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points

As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).

For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).

The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).

Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.

The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.

Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)

The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.

Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.

Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).

Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)

Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).

This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.

Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.

Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year

FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).

I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP). This is only applicable in the first year.

Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)

Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
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Old Nov 23, 2017, 6:24 am
  #766  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zanzibar
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 1,319
Originally Posted by Gajan
we spend roughly 50k per year on the co-branded platinum card in the Netherlands, but have not had any success. Your spend is significantly higher, may be more successful.
I spend between 10 & 20K a month on my platinum card but I use it for my company a lot. And still I have to pay the fee. I am actually thinking of dropping it next year as I have no need for the XP points and my girl can live fine without platinum status...
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Old Nov 23, 2017, 7:32 am
  #767  
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
What is a good moment to try? Spending on my and my wife's co-card together is a significant six digit amount. The card has some value for us, I do actually make use of the concierge service from time to time, various insurance covers every 18 months, and - probably the most convenient - as long as we have the card my wife is also Platinum for life, which she enjoys when traveling alone. She would qualify on her own in many years, but not always. Through the card she has that. Obviously many FB miles come through the spending, although not that many level miles (tickets for my professional trips, which are the ones bringing in the segments and level miles, are not paid with this card but through our corporate TA). But is that worth 570 EUR? I have second thoughts.
With a "significant six digit amount" put on the card, it would be difficult for it not to be worth EUR570 unless you make no use of the perks and struggle to use the award miles that you get from elsewhere* but, clearly, the value increases all the more if you can get the fee reduced or waived. IMO, it is when one's spending is in the low 5 digit figures that the value of the card is far less obvious.

*: Although one would also need to bring into the equation the value that you would get from another card with different perks.
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Old Nov 23, 2017, 7:46 am
  #768  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by NickB
*: Although one would also need to bring into the equation the value that you would get from another card with different perks.
And that brings back the fact that in NL, except for the normal Amex, you don't really have any credit cards with "perks".
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Old Nov 23, 2017, 10:16 am
  #769  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
Originally Posted by Ditto
And that brings back the fact that in NL, except for the normal Amex, you don't really have any credit cards with "perks".
That's exactly the problem, in FR (looks like in NL too) Amex has no competition on this segment.
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Old Nov 23, 2017, 10:20 am
  #770  
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by Mirk
That's exactly the problem, in FR (looks like in NL too) Amex has no competition on this segment.
I seem to recall having an ABN Amro Mastercard ~10 years ago or so that allowed you to pick (exceptionally crappy) items from an online catalogue on the basis of points awarded linked to spend. (All I can remember now is a selection of Mastercard-branded FIFA World Cup 2006 tie-in merchandise)

That was so bad I swapped to the FB Amex! (And no longer have that )
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Old Nov 23, 2017, 12:50 pm
  #771  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by irishguy28
I seem to recall having an ABN Amro Mastercard ~10 years ago or so that allowed you to pick (exceptionally crappy) items from an online catalogue on the basis of points awarded linked to spend. (All I can remember now is a selection of Mastercard-branded FIFA World Cup 2006 tie-in merchandise)

That was so bad I swapped to the FB Amex! (And no longer have that )
Well, today they don't even have that
I have the ABN Amro Gold Mastercard since it's practically free with my account, I think except for car rentals (since it has some excess coverage) I probably charge around 1K per year on it...
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Old Nov 24, 2017, 3:45 am
  #772  
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Originally Posted by Mirk
That's exactly the problem, in FR (looks like in NL too) Amex has no competition on this segment.
I don't know about the Dutch market but, as far as the French market is concerned, this is not correct. "Premium"-style visa/mastercard credit cards come with insurance/assistance perks. If you mean that there is no competition for cards with frequent flyer perks, that may well be right. But then one still needs to calculate whether the points are worth a steep annual fee. For someone with San Gottardo's level of expense, I would have thought that it would probably make sense. For someone with my level of expense, it probably does not.
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Old Nov 24, 2017, 6:58 am
  #773  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
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Originally Posted by NickB
I don't know about the Dutch market but, as far as the French market is concerned, this is not correct. "Premium"-style visa/mastercard credit cards come with insurance/assistance perks. If you mean that there is no competition for cards with frequent flyer perks, that may well be right. But then one still needs to calculate whether the points are worth a steep annual fee. For someone with San Gottardo's level of expense, I would have thought that it would probably make sense. For someone with my level of expense, it probably does not.
I meant with travel perks and rewards. Of course, there are premium cards with insurance/assistance included available, it starts with the Gold Mastercard which I used for a year some time ago.
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Old Nov 24, 2017, 11:46 am
  #774  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by NickB
With a "significant six digit amount" put on the card, it would be difficult for it not to be worth EUR570 unless you make no use of the perks and struggle to use the award miles that you get from elsewhere* but, clearly, the value increases all the more if you can get the fee reduced or waived. IMO, it is when one's spending is in the low 5 digit figures that the value of the card is far less obvious.

*: Although one would also need to bring into the equation the value that you would get from another card with different perks.
Yes, one could argue that the EUR 570 are the price to pay to win all these miles through spending and the perks. But then: I have other credit cards for free with identical perks (except Plat for 2 of course), and they also allow for conversion of spend into miles. Not FB, but M&M, but they are for free, as opposed to EUR 570. And my corporate AMEX allows for conversion to FB. So the EUR 570 are for having the Plat for 2 perk and for crediting miles to FB as opposed to another program.

Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
I spend between 10 & 20K a month on my platinum card but I use it for my company a lot. And still I have to pay the fee. I am actually thinking of dropping it next year as I have no need for the XP points and my girl can live fine without platinum status...
That is a "very significant six digit amount" (=sounds like more than I and my wife spend together on our cards)
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Old Nov 25, 2017, 10:49 pm
  #775  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
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Posts: 2,488
Originally Posted by dimitriyremerov
Another interesting concern: How will I earn Miles on a ST-issued ticket which includes AF/KL-marketed flights?
E.g. ticket issued by CZ, most long-haul flights are CZ-marketed, but it does include AF/KL-marketed flights, for example AMS-PAR. How much Miles will I get for that segment?
I think as of now it only matters which airline markets the flight, not the ticket stock. This is what the limited program details say and what you can see in the calculator (which does not differentiate on the stock).
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Old Dec 2, 2017, 4:11 am
  #776  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Programs: BA GGL, TK*G EL, KL P ELPL, ex AB P, ex LH/LX Sen, HHonors D4L, Bonvoy P
Posts: 1,647
Originally Posted by irishguy28
See above. The "double extension" doesn't gain you much extra; only 3 months, in comparison to the current case.

This is because the current system allows for as much as 27 months of status (all of the rest of the current calendar year, all of the next calendar year, and 3 months grace period of the calendar year after that), while the new system only allows for fixed 15 months of status (all of the brand-new immediately-started membership year, and 3 months grace period thereafter)

The real one-off benefit on offer in March/April 2019 is to get better recognition of level miles and segments, thereby "boosting" your rollover potential. Without rollovers, you are not really effectively extending your status period at all (albeit that you may get a higher status in between, as part of the conversion; if you don't manage to "trip" a faster status upgrade, you will actually DECREASE YOUR STATUS PERIOD).
irishguy28, I'm really getting worried ... I'm a Gold and will requalify as Gold easily on 31 December 2017, carrying forward around 20000 Level miles. With my planned flights from January till March, I will reach about 38000 Level miles. Under the old system I would have needed only 2000 additional Level miles to qualify until March 2020. I understand that under the new system my 38000 Level miles get converted at a rate of 5XP per 1000 Level miles, i.e. 190 XP. And now comes the worrying part: Will my status year start from 1 April 2018 and last till 30 June 2019 only, setting me back to only 10 XP carry over?
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Old Dec 2, 2017, 4:24 am
  #777  
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Originally Posted by swiss_global
And now comes the worrying part: Will my status year start from 1 April 2018 and last till 30 June 2019 only, setting me back to only 10 XP carry over?
The only thing that can change your status year is if you go up in status.

Any time you go up in status, your anniversary date shifts to the date you took the flight that elevated your status.

The change from Level Miles/Segments to XPs on 1 April 2018 will only change membership years for the very few people who find that they go up in status as a result of the Level Miles/Segments to XP conversion. This does NOT apply to you
irishguy28 is online now  
Old Dec 2, 2017, 5:32 am
  #778  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Programs: BA GGL, TK*G EL, KL P ELPL, ex AB P, ex LH/LX Sen, HHonors D4L, Bonvoy P
Posts: 1,647
Originally Posted by irishguy28
The only thing that can change your status year is if you go up in status.

Any time you go up in status, your anniversary date shifts to the date you took the flight that elevated your status.

The change from Level Miles/Segments to XPs on 1 April 2018 will only change membership years for the very few people who find that they go up in status as a result of the Level Miles/Segments to XP conversion. This does NOT apply to you
Thanks a lot, irishguy28, for your response! So this means my qualification date remains the 31st of December "forever" , unless I move up to Plat eventually?
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Old Dec 2, 2017, 5:34 am
  #779  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,065
Yes, that would be so. (consider - if the clock was reset, whenever requalification happens - it would be impossible to ascend to a higher level)
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Old Dec 2, 2017, 5:50 am
  #780  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 177
Afternoon all

I'm getting very confused with the new system; the FB calculator and how flights taken between Jan and March next year are not converting to what the calculator says.

Currently, I'm trying to get some cast iron answers out of the team on Twitter but what they're saying and what the calculator says makes no sense at all!

The example I've given them is that if I take a Business class ticket from CDG to LHR how many points does it convert to from the old to new system. They are saying that it's 7 XP. But according to the FB calculator it's 15 points!

I thought I had my plans figured out for next year but with what they are saying it's totally thrown me back and I have no idea what to believe anymore!

Anyone have any better knowledge of this???
TographerE is offline  


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