Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#92
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,750
It is very unlikely that, in the process of doing this conversion, the XP number generated pushes you above one of the XP thresholds. If it does, however, that number of XPs is removed from your account and your status is upgraded.
The far more likely scenario, though, is that your account is "updated" on 1 April and will have a new XP number, with no change in status. When you cross the next XP threshold, only then will that number be taken away and your status updated, with a year in which to retain that status, or aim higher.
In your example, it clearly would be better to "run" for Silver, so that you avoid having the status-upgrade performed as part of the change to the new programme; you would then start already as Silver, and have a much greater starting XP total to bring Gold closer. (the target for Gold is 180, and in this scenario, you would be "starting" your year with at least 125 XPs).
However, I think this is very much a corner-case, and there won't be many people on 24k level miles by the end of March. One hopes, however, that anyone flying that much DOES their homework and makes sure they play the system to their benefit. It would be better to attain Silver, for this particular customer, under the "old" rules by the end of March.
#95
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,750
Unlikely, given that they don't currently give the business miles for such upgrades currently (except accidentally).
#96
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: BRS
Posts: 336
#97
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,750
If you're Ivory, you need 100 + 180 + 300 in three consecutive subsequent "years" to reach Platinum, a year "ending" whenever you cross one of those thresholds.
If you're silver, you start the year needing 180 + 300 in two consecutive subsequent "years" to reach Platinum, a year "ending" whenever you cross one of those thresholds.
etc etc
#98
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,750
#99
Join Date: May 2014
Location: AMS
Programs: FB Platinum | A3 Gold | BA Silver
Posts: 58
I’m concerned. Right now I’m sitting on about 112k level miles for this year with more still to come (potentially getting to 70k before April 2018 with the carryover + more flights). In the new system does it mean that when I qualify for platinum and my xp resets and 12-months starts, that each time I hit 300 xp it will reset and start a new 12-month period?
Last edited by foxtwo; Nov 6, 2017 at 5:05 am
#100
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH, MNL
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 975
But this is pure speculation for now, we have to wait for an updated earning chart to be published.
#101
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 20
#102
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NUE
Programs: *G (TK elite+), OW sapphire (QR), ST elite plus (AF). LA black
Posts: 3,687
Any word on mileage redemption?
Any word on ULTI, qualification requirements, benefits?
Interesting to see that all the wisecracks - including myself! - who were certain that status earning will have a minimum spend got it wrong; we also thought that they’ll increase re/qualification thresholds - they did for people starting from scratch, but remained the same for requalification, which is still possible with segments (without calling it that way). And, we were completely off by thinking that segment would no longer be a relevant measure - it is, as XPs are awarded (amongst other things) on a segment basis. Except that now the value of every segment can be increased by booking a higher class, which actually could be attractive for some.
I can see their logic for still giving some sort of status to the lower yielding frequent travelers, but for thinning out the top. Which makes a lot of sense.
I must say, not Armageddon at all, contrary to our expectations. Which leaves me to wonder whether the bitter pill is hidden elsewhere. In redemption levels for instance, or in making some status benefits optional (« choice benefits » is something that DL uses, isn’t it?).
Any word on ULTI, qualification requirements, benefits?
Interesting to see that all the wisecracks - including myself! - who were certain that status earning will have a minimum spend got it wrong; we also thought that they’ll increase re/qualification thresholds - they did for people starting from scratch, but remained the same for requalification, which is still possible with segments (without calling it that way). And, we were completely off by thinking that segment would no longer be a relevant measure - it is, as XPs are awarded (amongst other things) on a segment basis. Except that now the value of every segment can be increased by booking a higher class, which actually could be attractive for some.
I can see their logic for still giving some sort of status to the lower yielding frequent travelers, but for thinning out the top. Which makes a lot of sense.
I must say, not Armageddon at all, contrary to our expectations. Which leaves me to wonder whether the bitter pill is hidden elsewhere. In redemption levels for instance, or in making some status benefits optional (« choice benefits » is something that DL uses, isn’t it?).
LATAM has inventory controlled award tickets since ages and you are most probably able to snatch an award seat - but for a huge price tag. E.g. FRA-LIM in economy is 120.000km roundtrip on LATAM. you can find award tickets for up to 460.000km in coach class
The bright side is - that while searching for inner South American award tickets - business class awards were often cheaper than economy or premium economy awards
#103
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
#104
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,089
First of all, your level miles / status segments will be converted to XP.
It is very unlikely that, in the process of doing this conversion, the XP number generated pushes you above one of the XP thresholds. If it does, however, that number of XPs is removed from your account and your status is upgraded.
The far more likely scenario, though, is that your account is "updated" on 1 April and will have a new XP number, with no change in status. When you cross the next XP threshold, only then will that number be taken away and your status updated, with a year in which to retain that status, or aim higher.
It is very unlikely that, in the process of doing this conversion, the XP number generated pushes you above one of the XP thresholds. If it does, however, that number of XPs is removed from your account and your status is upgraded.
The far more likely scenario, though, is that your account is "updated" on 1 April and will have a new XP number, with no change in status. When you cross the next XP threshold, only then will that number be taken away and your status updated, with a year in which to retain that status, or aim higher.
Yes, building a high segment or level miles amount in the first quarter of 2018 would be a sensible thing to do, for those that can. Because it will be the very last time that level miles/segments can be used to attain more than one single status level. (though, unlike the old scheme, those Level Miles/Segments won't remain available to you for all of 2018, but only until you go up a level, at which stage they will be taken away).
In your example, if you had 24k level miles at the end of March 2018, you would just be short of Silver. The 24k level miles would be converted to 120 XP, which gives you Silver - so you actually earn Silver faster under the new scheme for this particular flying pattern. You would then start the "new" programme with an XP total of 20XP, and a target of another 160XP required by 31 March 2019 in order to get to Gold.
In your example, if you had 24k level miles at the end of March 2018, you would just be short of Silver. The 24k level miles would be converted to 120 XP, which gives you Silver - so you actually earn Silver faster under the new scheme for this particular flying pattern. You would then start the "new" programme with an XP total of 20XP, and a target of another 160XP required by 31 March 2019 in order to get to Gold.
As an aside, it seems that AF wants to keep more people at Silver as opposed to Gold. It used to be easier (by miles) or at most as hard (by segments) to get from Silver to Gold than from Ivory to Silver. Now it is significantly harder to get 180XP from Silver to gold than it is to get 100XP from Ivory to Silver.
However, I think this is very much a corner-case, and there won't be many people on 24k level miles by the end of March. One hopes, however, that anyone flying that much DOES their homework and makes sure they play the system to their benefit. It would be better to attain Silver, for this particular customer, under the "old" rules by the end of March.
I suppose there will be many people with 24K miles by the end of March, but I believe most of them are already Gold or Platinum, so all the miles will convert into requal pool anyway.
Same applies for segments by the way, from 14 segments you'll be one domestic short of silver at 98XP, but with 15 you'd get 105 towards your Gold.
#105
Join Date: May 2015
Location: RBA / TBS
Programs: AF Gold / Accor Gold / Hilton Diamond / TP Silver / A3 Gold
Posts: 2,758
Hi all
thanks for quick updates
it looks like now people will need to do brainstorming
Also the idea of individual membership year can be helpful if you are flexible
If you can schedule your highest earning flights during your gold/platinium qualification year , it can be faster and easier to reach your goals
I guess more details will come later but iam curious about some points
- what will be the earning charts for flights with non-ST partners ??
- we all had cases when a booking class gives nothing (miles/segments) with some ST partners , like OK . Will it change or stay the same ?
- also they forget about non-flying partners , cause if from AF/KL 1€=4 miles minimum , I don’t know if they will follow the same standards
As usual we will need to wait and see .....
thanks for quick updates
it looks like now people will need to do brainstorming
Also the idea of individual membership year can be helpful if you are flexible
If you can schedule your highest earning flights during your gold/platinium qualification year , it can be faster and easier to reach your goals
I guess more details will come later but iam curious about some points
- what will be the earning charts for flights with non-ST partners ??
- we all had cases when a booking class gives nothing (miles/segments) with some ST partners , like OK . Will it change or stay the same ?
- also they forget about non-flying partners , cause if from AF/KL 1€=4 miles minimum , I don’t know if they will follow the same standards
As usual we will need to wait and see .....
Last edited by fifty_two; Nov 6, 2017 at 5:38 am