Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#931
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: OZ Diamond *A Gold / Delta Gold
Posts: 775
I would advise you to consider carefully the logic of your strategy.
If you have to "invent" reasons to travel in order to maintain status - are you actually travelling enough to require status? (I know, it's great to have status - but it doesn't make much sense when you push yourself into travel patterns you wouldn't otherwise consider, just to maintain status).
Conversely - if you have the wherewithal to book paid business - why do you need status? You get the main "perks" as a result of your class of travel. And - unlike the case with status, where its effects only apply to a limited number of particular airlines, and which effects are greatest if you are an economy traveller - you can spend that cash on ANY airline's business class - maybe even on a much cheaper ticket on a completely different airline, regardless of alliance - and still obtain the main "perks" for each such trip.
If you have to "invent" reasons to travel in order to maintain status - are you actually travelling enough to require status? (I know, it's great to have status - but it doesn't make much sense when you push yourself into travel patterns you wouldn't otherwise consider, just to maintain status).
Conversely - if you have the wherewithal to book paid business - why do you need status? You get the main "perks" as a result of your class of travel. And - unlike the case with status, where its effects only apply to a limited number of particular airlines, and which effects are greatest if you are an economy traveller - you can spend that cash on ANY airline's business class - maybe even on a much cheaper ticket on a completely different airline, regardless of alliance - and still obtain the main "perks" for each such trip.
I fly for work in North America and we will see how it goes over there on the XP side. The policy is to fly economy though, hence my question. I just happened to notice that price-wise, this particular airline was much cheaper on the route I mentioned, and compared to South Korean airlines that requires you to take out the luggage at ICN, the luggage could go directly from JFK to CJU through PVU. Conversely, ANA does not seem to propose a Tokyo to CJU flight directly and give me a CJU / HBD KE flight only for the return (but not on the way to South Korea). Anyway, I disgress. Thank you for your concern, truly appreciate the word.
#932
#934
Join Date: May 2012
Location: AMS
Programs: BA KL LH Hilton Marriott
Posts: 1,233
I did the search function but cannot find this correctly. Will in FB still the MARKETING carrier schema be applied?
probably some are getting those cheap fares ex WAW and those book on a 784 (CZ) ticket with CZ flight numbers.
Mine books into I-class (all segments are operated by KL but marketed CZ) which shoudl earn 100% in flying blue. I then get 22000 miles approx(platinum) and not 850*8=6800
is my understanding correct? btw; it has Always been like this and i cannot find nowhere that schema would be now the operating carrier.
if this is the case, especially and cheap tickets, you might want to book on other ticket stock with codeshare flight numbers.
probably some are getting those cheap fares ex WAW and those book on a 784 (CZ) ticket with CZ flight numbers.
Mine books into I-class (all segments are operated by KL but marketed CZ) which shoudl earn 100% in flying blue. I then get 22000 miles approx(platinum) and not 850*8=6800
is my understanding correct? btw; it has Always been like this and i cannot find nowhere that schema would be now the operating carrier.
if this is the case, especially and cheap tickets, you might want to book on other ticket stock with codeshare flight numbers.
#935
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Flying Blue Miles
You will earn:3036 Award Miles
0 Level Miles
108 XP
You will earn:3036 Award Miles
0 Level Miles
108 XP
#936
Join Date: May 2015
Location: RBA / TBS
Programs: AF Gold / Accor Gold / Hilton Diamond / TP Silver / A3 Gold
Posts: 2,755
Ok now i get it , yes since air china started flights to WAW in 2016 the prices of other ST airlines from WAW to main chinese cities dropped , so 500€ is a common price to china in Y, however this 800€ in J is an error i guess , i cant try it cause iam blocked in europe now , but why not organizing a weekend in china, thanks for the idea
#937
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
I do not think that this is an error. KL has had extremely low business class fares around that level or a little higher to secondary chinese cities (CTU, XMN, HGH in particular) from some secondary European points of origin (SOF/OTP in the past, for example). I think the fare is a deliberate, legitimate one, not an error.
#938
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
The WAW-CTU fare certainly is not an error. It is a recurring one ; 6 months ago was available from BUD. More recently from TUN.
And fully agree with others : no incentive at all to book on AF/KL with the new FB scheme.
And fully agree with others : no incentive at all to book on AF/KL with the new FB scheme.
#939
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: WORLD
Programs: Bonvoy Titanium, Flying Blue (KLM) Platinum, Oneworld (BA) Sapphire, *A (Aegean) Gold, IHG Spire RA,
Posts: 555
and question, what is your ticket stock? Is it KLM ticket stock with CZ flights?
because my booking doesn't show any earnings as i have a 784 (CZ) ticket and all CZ marketed flights. But, (I) should earn 100%.
there is lots of options for longhaul to just take a codeshare flight.
Last edited by christravelblog; Jan 18, 2018 at 6:04 am
#940
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: WORLD
Programs: Bonvoy Titanium, Flying Blue (KLM) Platinum, Oneworld (BA) Sapphire, *A (Aegean) Gold, IHG Spire RA,
Posts: 555
Ok now i get it , yes since air china started flights to WAW in 2016 the prices of other ST airlines from WAW to main chinese cities dropped , so 500€ is a common price to china in Y, however this 800€ in J is an error i guess , i cant try it cause iam blocked in europe now , but why not organizing a weekend in china, thanks for the idea
#941
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
For the record, stock has nothing to do with miles earning. Only marketing/operating counts. It makes sense to book on CZ marketed / AF operated after 31 March.
#942
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
I do not think that we know for sure yet. AIUI, on airlines which have already implemented revenue-based earning, it is normally the case that only those flights which are coded with the relevant airlines and issued on the ticket stock of the airline concerned to wihch the new system is applied. The reason for this appears to be that the airline does not have enough information on the value of the ticket if the flight is issued on another ticket stock. It may be that this is not an issue for FB and that, therefore, only the marketing carrier will matter and not the ticket stock. it is, however, still a bit early to be 100% sure about this and I think that we will have to wait until the system kicks in for confirmation.
FWIW, KL can tell me how many award miles I will earn under the new system for an AF-issued ticket with AF flight # but it is unable to tell me how many award miles I will earn under the new system for a DL-issued ticket with AF flight #. While not entirely conclusive, this nevertheless suggests to me that there might conceivably be a difference in how FB handles AF/KL-issued tickets and tickets issued on other airlines' stock.
FWIW, KL can tell me how many award miles I will earn under the new system for an AF-issued ticket with AF flight # but it is unable to tell me how many award miles I will earn under the new system for a DL-issued ticket with AF flight #. While not entirely conclusive, this nevertheless suggests to me that there might conceivably be a difference in how FB handles AF/KL-issued tickets and tickets issued on other airlines' stock.
Last edited by NickB; Jan 18, 2018 at 9:56 am Reason: added second paragraph
#943
Join Date: May 2012
Location: AMS
Programs: BA KL LH Hilton Marriott
Posts: 1,233
This is a booking AFTER 1 April ? if so GREAT!
and question, what is your ticket stock? Is it KLM ticket stock with CZ flights?
because my booking doesn't show any earnings as i have a 784 (CZ) ticket and all CZ marketed flights. But, (I) should earn 100%.
there is lots of options for longhaul to just take a codeshare flight.
and question, what is your ticket stock? Is it KLM ticket stock with CZ flights?
because my booking doesn't show any earnings as i have a 784 (CZ) ticket and all CZ marketed flights. But, (I) should earn 100%.
there is lots of options for longhaul to just take a codeshare flight.
#944
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Do you have any non-ST flight in your itinerary? I have a WAW-HGH ticket issued on KL stock with the outward on KL and the return on CZ with, however, a non-ST flight in the lot and KL will not show me the earnings on that ticket. I wondered whether this was because of that non-ST flight in the middle. Another conceivable reason might be that the system does not like a mix of new-style revenue based miles and old style booking class and distance-based miles.
#945
Join Date: May 2012
Location: AMS
Programs: BA KL LH Hilton Marriott
Posts: 1,233
Do you have any non-ST flight in your itinerary? I have a WAW-HGH ticket issued on KL stock with the outward on KL and the return on CZ with, however, a non-ST flight in the lot and KL will not show me the earnings on that ticket. I wondered whether this was because of that non-ST flight in the middle. Another conceivable reason might be that the system does not like a mix of new-style revenue based miles and old style booking class and distance-based miles.