Flight Pass - Class Action Lawsuit!
Oct 26, 2007, 9:00 am
#121
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: YYZ (base), lived in YVR, YYT, YOW
Programs: AC*SE (+1MM), SPG plat
Posts: 25
refund ??
No I bought a product I wanted with all of it's advertised bells and horns. I want to keep what I bought not have the vendor steal parts of it back to sell to other customers! A refund is as good as saying - I'll LET THEM out of the contract. No deal.
Oct 26, 2007, 9:08 am
#122
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: YHZ
Programs: AC-SE MM, Bonvoy Lifetime Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 298
An update on where things are at from my end: I've been through the customer relations centre to it's natural conclusion... same as you see above (yes it's an enhancement). I also asked to escalate in the organization and was told there is no further place to go... so now I'm documenting my case for the Canadian Transportation Agency. I'll continue to follow the process until satifsfied or until I have to get a class certified. I'll keep you posted.
Everyone: please continue to contact customer relations and express your discontent. Keep up the pressure.
Everyone: please continue to contact customer relations and express your discontent. Keep up the pressure.
She is looking as we speak, trying to get me a name and number to call to talk about Pass Products specifically, but can any of you figure out which of these folks would be in charge of this?
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media/bio/index.html
I was thinking the EVP Customer Experience, but the agent on the phone thinks that means in-flight. At the very least, I would say Ms. Welscheid.
Johnathan*SE - can you post the number you called?
Oct 26, 2007, 9:16 am
#123
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: YYZ (base), lived in YVR, YYT, YOW
Programs: AC*SE (+1MM), SPG plat
Posts: 25
How to reach AC customer relations
The easiest way is to use the web form for comments on flights and reservations on the AC web site. Then you get a written record of the customer relations experience that we can use later. Otherwise there is an 866 number as well...but sorry I do not have it handy.
Oct 26, 2007, 9:26 am
#124
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: YHZ
Programs: AC-SE MM, Bonvoy Lifetime Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 298
The easiest way is to use the web form for comments on flights and reservations on the AC web site. Then you get a written record of the customer relations experience that we can use later. Otherwise there is an 866 number as well...but sorry I do not have it handy.
Heads up: This change came in on the web on Oct 19, and does not hit the call centre system until Nov 13. Feel free to read between the lines for those of you that are in J=2 or J=1 situations.
Oct 26, 2007, 9:31 am
#125
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,805
Of course, this is only for people who bought a pass before the change.
Oct 26, 2007, 11:05 am
#126
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,103
Bottom line
COS bonus
I have been short changed 5326 status miles so far.
I hold 13 more credits that were purchased prior to the COS rule change. I demand to have my COS that was part of the product that I bought.
J upgrade
I have 13 more credits that were purchased again prior to the J2 rules change. I demand to have my upgrade confirmed if J is greater that 0.
AC can change the rules for NEW PASSES prior to PURCHASE. They can not change the rules for products that have already been sold.
Remedy
The only remedy that I will accept is to grandfather theses benefits for passes purchased prior to the relevant rules change dates. AC got my money up to 12 months prior to my using the credits. It is too bad for them that a 12 month cycle makes it hard to implement changes to the product. NOT MY PROBLEM.
I have been short changed 5326 status miles so far.
I hold 13 more credits that were purchased prior to the COS rule change. I demand to have my COS that was part of the product that I bought.
J upgrade
I have 13 more credits that were purchased again prior to the J2 rules change. I demand to have my upgrade confirmed if J is greater that 0.
AC can change the rules for NEW PASSES prior to PURCHASE. They can not change the rules for products that have already been sold.
Remedy
The only remedy that I will accept is to grandfather theses benefits for passes purchased prior to the relevant rules change dates. AC got my money up to 12 months prior to my using the credits. It is too bad for them that a 12 month cycle makes it hard to implement changes to the product. NOT MY PROBLEM.
Last edited by fly-yul; Oct 26, 2007 at 11:12 am
Oct 26, 2007, 11:36 am
#127
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM, Asia Miles, SPG Gold (life), HH Gold, Golden Circle Jade
Posts: 1,068
It's very much less than a straightforward procedure.
Oct 26, 2007, 11:42 am
#128
Join Date: May 2004
Location: YUL
Posts: 15
[QUOTE=fly-yul;8624851]COS bonus
I have been short changed 5326 status miles so far.
I hold 13 more credits that were purchased prior to the COS rule change. I demand to have my COS that was part of the product that I bought.
J upgrade
I have 13 more credits that were purchased again prior to the J2 rules change. I demand to have my upgrade confirmed if J is greater that 0.
fly-yul et al,
You have not been shortchanged 5326 status miles so far. You received COS bonuses on your flights prior to you being "shortchanged". The COS bonus was never an advertised perk, had it been, then you would have a case.
Yes, it stinks that they would change the upgrade policy on these passes to J>2, but again, they never advertised it as a "guaranteed" upgrade.
golfer
I have been short changed 5326 status miles so far.
I hold 13 more credits that were purchased prior to the COS rule change. I demand to have my COS that was part of the product that I bought.
J upgrade
I have 13 more credits that were purchased again prior to the J2 rules change. I demand to have my upgrade confirmed if J is greater that 0.
fly-yul et al,
You have not been shortchanged 5326 status miles so far. You received COS bonuses on your flights prior to you being "shortchanged". The COS bonus was never an advertised perk, had it been, then you would have a case.
Yes, it stinks that they would change the upgrade policy on these passes to J>2, but again, they never advertised it as a "guaranteed" upgrade.
golfer
Oct 26, 2007, 11:46 am
#129
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: YEG
Programs: Now AC Peon, *A nobody, SPG Gold, Hertz 5*, FPC Platinum
Posts: 1,427
So you simply want what they owed you in the first place?
What about the time, effort, and energy you will have expended just getting back what was yours in the first place? I agree for all you pass owners this really stinks.
Passes don't work for my travel patterns but I have recommended them to several others on different occasions because I thought it fit their travel patterns. Thank goodness none of them took my advice!
What about the time, effort, and energy you will have expended just getting back what was yours in the first place? I agree for all you pass owners this really stinks.
Passes don't work for my travel patterns but I have recommended them to several others on different occasions because I thought it fit their travel patterns. Thank goodness none of them took my advice!
COS bonus
I have been short changed 5326 status miles so far.
I hold 13 more credits that were purchased prior to the COS rule change. I demand to have my COS that was part of the product that I bought.
J upgrade
I have 13 more credits that were purchased again prior to the J2 rules change. I demand to have my upgrade confirmed if J is greater that 0.
AC can change the rules for NEW PASSES prior to PURCHASE. They can not change the rules for products that have already been sold.
Remedy
The only remedy that I will accept is to grandfather theses benefits for passes purchased prior to the relevant rules change dates. AC got my money up to 12 months prior to my using the credits. It is too bad for them that a 12 month cycle makes it hard to implement changes to the product. NOT MY PROBLEM.
I have been short changed 5326 status miles so far.
I hold 13 more credits that were purchased prior to the COS rule change. I demand to have my COS that was part of the product that I bought.
J upgrade
I have 13 more credits that were purchased again prior to the J2 rules change. I demand to have my upgrade confirmed if J is greater that 0.
AC can change the rules for NEW PASSES prior to PURCHASE. They can not change the rules for products that have already been sold.
Remedy
The only remedy that I will accept is to grandfather theses benefits for passes purchased prior to the relevant rules change dates. AC got my money up to 12 months prior to my using the credits. It is too bad for them that a 12 month cycle makes it hard to implement changes to the product. NOT MY PROBLEM.
Oct 26, 2007, 12:02 pm
#130
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM, Asia Miles, SPG Gold (life), HH Gold, Golden Circle Jade
Posts: 1,068
I've been thinking about how this new J restriction will play out. Typically when I get the comp upgrade, there are only 1 or 2 empty seats in J by the upgrade window. From my point of view this new policy just made upgrading impossible, at least on my routes. Fine, I'm going to toss about 20 SSWU and SWU at end of year, and I'm only buying flight pass when it's cheaper than buying individual tickets anyway so I don't care in the selfish sense that much today. In the past, one of the great things of flight pass is you could switch to a new flight last minute. In fact I once managed to get onto a flight 5 minutes after it had closed, in J. Now we're stuck playing aerolotto where we once had freedom and ability to confirm. E's and P's on flightpass are really in a tough spot because 1 or 2 SE on the flight and hope for that upgrade is gone. If J=2 or less is really an issue, which it appears to be, then the situation is almost hopeless for E and P. For non-status passengers, upgrades will be as frequent as op-ups I predict.
With J=2 being their choice, it means that on average they get 1-2 walk-up J purchases, which I don't believe anyway. Let's say, for argument they get 1 walk-up J purchase per flight. Let's take a 319 cabin- 14J. The last J seat goes to a cert upgrade from an SE not on flight pass who showed up early to get his upgrade, unlike the flight pass people who have flight pass precisely because of their tight and fluxuating schedule. 12J left. Several are international J connections, a couple paid, a couple AE, and perhaps 3 cert upgrades and 2 pass upgrades - 14J full.
By my count, those who paid premium vs mid vs non-premium fares:
Premium: 3 paid
Mid: 2 pass + 2 cert (SWU/NA)
Low: 2 cert (SSWU) + 3 intl J cnx + 2 AE
If they allowed J=2,1 flight pass upgrades they would have roughly 1J fare (= 2 Lat fares) up front for those last two seats. Instead, they have 1J plus 1 cheap economy ticket there and 2 Lat fares in the back. It's almost no gain except perhaps in getting a J-paying passenger to fly on their airline instead of walking down to the next airline counter. When paying J, the products really aren't too distinguishable in this market so consumers won't care in general. However those paying for Lat fare flight pass will care because they have to pre-invest a large sum of money, pay a high economy fare, and sit in the back when someone with a lower economy fare sits up front (potentially, but likely).
Conclusion: it's a race to the bottom. Picking up that one high-profit customer costs 2 mid-range customers, pre-invested cash, customer good-will, and part of the market segment that does discriminate on product. The paying J customer will jump ship without hesitation, the paying Y customer won't --- unless the airline screws them. Oh wait...
With J=2 being their choice, it means that on average they get 1-2 walk-up J purchases, which I don't believe anyway. Let's say, for argument they get 1 walk-up J purchase per flight. Let's take a 319 cabin- 14J. The last J seat goes to a cert upgrade from an SE not on flight pass who showed up early to get his upgrade, unlike the flight pass people who have flight pass precisely because of their tight and fluxuating schedule. 12J left. Several are international J connections, a couple paid, a couple AE, and perhaps 3 cert upgrades and 2 pass upgrades - 14J full.
By my count, those who paid premium vs mid vs non-premium fares:
Premium: 3 paid
Mid: 2 pass + 2 cert (SWU/NA)
Low: 2 cert (SSWU) + 3 intl J cnx + 2 AE
If they allowed J=2,1 flight pass upgrades they would have roughly 1J fare (= 2 Lat fares) up front for those last two seats. Instead, they have 1J plus 1 cheap economy ticket there and 2 Lat fares in the back. It's almost no gain except perhaps in getting a J-paying passenger to fly on their airline instead of walking down to the next airline counter. When paying J, the products really aren't too distinguishable in this market so consumers won't care in general. However those paying for Lat fare flight pass will care because they have to pre-invest a large sum of money, pay a high economy fare, and sit in the back when someone with a lower economy fare sits up front (potentially, but likely).
Conclusion: it's a race to the bottom. Picking up that one high-profit customer costs 2 mid-range customers, pre-invested cash, customer good-will, and part of the market segment that does discriminate on product. The paying J customer will jump ship without hesitation, the paying Y customer won't --- unless the airline screws them. Oh wait...
Oct 26, 2007, 12:04 pm
#131
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,103
[QUOTE=golfer;8625071]
We disagree on the COS point. I'm currently waiting to hear back from AC on this issue.
As for the upgrade issue there can be no disagreement.
From AC.com when I purchased the pass "Complimentary upgrades are offered with the Latitude fare option only and are subject to availability of the Executive Class fare (J booking class), "
There is no way out from this clause. If a J booking class is available, they MUST give me the seat.
Yes. I'm a reasonable person. In the realm of Customer service I'd start by simply asking for what is mine, as I have done in this case. (I'd also make the information available to others here to benefit from)
But if this leaves the customer service arena and becomes something else, then one must re-evaluate the compensation required.
COS bonus
I have been short changed 5326 status miles so far.
I hold 13 more credits that were purchased prior to the COS rule change. I demand to have my COS that was part of the product that I bought.
J upgrade
I have 13 more credits that were purchased again prior to the J2 rules change. I demand to have my upgrade confirmed if J is greater that 0.
fly-yul et al,
You have not been shortchanged 5326 status miles so far. You received COS bonuses on your flights prior to you being "shortchanged". The COS bonus was never an advertised perk, had it been, then you would have a case.
Yes, it stinks that they would change the upgrade policy on these passes to J>2, but again, they never advertised it as a "guaranteed" upgrade.
golfer
I have been short changed 5326 status miles so far.
I hold 13 more credits that were purchased prior to the COS rule change. I demand to have my COS that was part of the product that I bought.
J upgrade
I have 13 more credits that were purchased again prior to the J2 rules change. I demand to have my upgrade confirmed if J is greater that 0.
fly-yul et al,
You have not been shortchanged 5326 status miles so far. You received COS bonuses on your flights prior to you being "shortchanged". The COS bonus was never an advertised perk, had it been, then you would have a case.
Yes, it stinks that they would change the upgrade policy on these passes to J>2, but again, they never advertised it as a "guaranteed" upgrade.
golfer
As for the upgrade issue there can be no disagreement.
From AC.com when I purchased the pass "Complimentary upgrades are offered with the Latitude fare option only and are subject to availability of the Executive Class fare (J booking class), "
There is no way out from this clause. If a J booking class is available, they MUST give me the seat.
Yes. I'm a reasonable person. In the realm of Customer service I'd start by simply asking for what is mine, as I have done in this case. (I'd also make the information available to others here to benefit from)
But if this leaves the customer service arena and becomes something else, then one must re-evaluate the compensation required.
Oct 26, 2007, 12:13 pm
#132
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YEG
Programs: AC E50 MM, WJ Gold, Marriott Titanium Elite Lifetime
Posts: 3,082
[QUOTE=golfer;8625071]
golfer makes an interesting point about them never advertising it as "guaranteed". We are all aware of that. It was advertised as available and coming out of J class, not J+2 class. Therefore, it is a changed in the T&C. Luckily I only have a few more flights left on my passes that i have already confirmed upgrades with.
COS bonus
I have been short changed 5326 status miles so far.
I hold 13 more credits that were purchased prior to the COS rule change. I demand to have my COS that was part of the product that I bought.
J upgrade
I have 13 more credits that were purchased again prior to the J2 rules change. I demand to have my upgrade confirmed if J is greater that 0.
fly-yul et al,
You have not been shortchanged 5326 status miles so far. You received COS bonuses on your flights prior to you being "shortchanged". The COS bonus was never an advertised perk, had it been, then you would have a case.
Yes, it stinks that they would change the upgrade policy on these passes to J>2, but again, they never advertised it as a "guaranteed" upgrade.
golfer
I have been short changed 5326 status miles so far.
I hold 13 more credits that were purchased prior to the COS rule change. I demand to have my COS that was part of the product that I bought.
J upgrade
I have 13 more credits that were purchased again prior to the J2 rules change. I demand to have my upgrade confirmed if J is greater that 0.
fly-yul et al,
You have not been shortchanged 5326 status miles so far. You received COS bonuses on your flights prior to you being "shortchanged". The COS bonus was never an advertised perk, had it been, then you would have a case.
Yes, it stinks that they would change the upgrade policy on these passes to J>2, but again, they never advertised it as a "guaranteed" upgrade.
golfer
Oct 26, 2007, 12:18 pm
#133
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,103
[QUOTE=stinger;8625315]
golfer makes an interesting point about them never advertising it as "guaranteed". We are all aware of that. It was advertised as available and coming out of J class, not J+2 class. Therefore, it is a changed in the T&C. Luckily I only have a few more flights left on my passes that i have already confirmed upgrades with.
COS --> Again, that is one person's opinion. No more or less valid than mine. I'm still waiting to hear the verdict on this matter from AC. They have not said no to me yet.
J+2 --> Open and shut. T&C said subject to J booking class availability.
golfer makes an interesting point about them never advertising it as "guaranteed". We are all aware of that. It was advertised as available and coming out of J class, not J+2 class. Therefore, it is a changed in the T&C. Luckily I only have a few more flights left on my passes that i have already confirmed upgrades with.
J+2 --> Open and shut. T&C said subject to J booking class availability.
Oct 26, 2007, 12:32 pm
#134
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YEG
Programs: AC E50 MM, WJ Gold, Marriott Titanium Elite Lifetime
Posts: 3,082
[QUOTE=fly-yul;8625355]
COS-After I emailed Montie they got back to me and let me know it wasn't coming back. Only a matter of time.
Still can't believe they don't bother to tell anyone. Truly pathetic customer service.
COS-After I emailed Montie they got back to me and let me know it wasn't coming back. Only a matter of time.
Still can't believe they don't bother to tell anyone. Truly pathetic customer service.
Oct 26, 2007, 2:10 pm
#135
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: YVR
Posts: 9,999
Still can't believe they don't bother to tell anyone. Truly pathetic customer service.
How many times have they reduced and/or eliminated some benefit without telling anyone in the last 7 or 8 years? Ten? Twenty? Fifty?
As usual, I surprised that anyone is surprised. I just always figured it was inevitable. And I'm sure they're not done yet with pass product cutbacks.