Golden Toque

And this is exactly what I would want. A class action suit would take years to evolve, a quick solution from AC in the form of compensation with no bad press would be in everyone's best interest.

tcook052

Is AC's IT capable of grandfathering some, but not all, passes? How would it know what was a new pass and what was a previous pass? Seems that this battle may be an all or nothing proposition given the notorious limitations of AC's ITs as nice a compromise as it was, Altaflyer.

antirealist

They know the expiry date, so they know the purchase date.

RSWillson

Interesting observation...just after this thread started I checked the T&Cs for the RapidAir pass on AC's website. It still had the same wording as BB's example. It was only after his became a s**tstorm here that they changed the wording to remove specific reference to J class.

They do listen to us when it's in their best interest.

Altaflyer

Of course they will fix whatever the problem is because honestly if there are 2J seats left then it is probably a good business decision to hold those back and they need to make sure their T&C are accurate. They still have to honour the terms under which they sold previous product though and how they accomplish this from an IT perspective is AC's problem - perhaps tell ALL those with old passes to call in for their upgrades (ie. not just those that complain).

zorn

I appreciate your views on this topic.

However, there is no other industry that I know of that has built-in "something for nothing" at the core of its marketing.

I shop at the same grocery store every week, spending far more with them than I do with any airline. I do not consider myself loyal to them, and I'm quite certain they are not loyal to me in any way. Same goes for the car deal I use and the bank that holds my mortgage.

I remain convinced that frequent travellers would get far less upset about things if they would realize that the airline cares as much about them as the bank, the car dealer, and the grocery store. Any perceived "relationship" is pure marketing on the part of the airline combined with the desired base emotional response on the part of the consumer.

The pass upgrade case is a contractual problem and shouldn't be laden with any further emotional baggage.

Personally I think current pass holders should get J1 upgrades until those passes expire.

I write this as someone who has accumulated miles in the current post-post airline bankruptcy world and long, long after the golden age of flying and reward programs. Perhaps I'm lucky that way.

fly-yul

Doing the right thing is as simple as ABC!

Ken hAAmer

I don't.

I probably should, but I don't.

Ken hAAmer

In my eight years of flying Air Canada I have never, ever, not even once, purchased the lowest available fare. Not ever. That is to say on hundreds and hundreds of tickets I have always paid "more," every single time. Sometimes the premium is a few hundred dollars, sometimes it's several thousand.

But as has often been the case, AC regularly shoots themselves in the foot. On my frequent (~5 times a year) flights on YVR-SYD, I used to spend about $4000 per ticket to get a confirmed upgrade at time of booking. But once they all but eliminated I space on that route, I looked for alternatives.

Typically I would wait until only a few days before the flight, and evaluate the J space. If there was lots on or near the date of my planned flight, I'd purchase a cheap but upgradable, changeable, refundable (even with a small penalty) and carefully watch the space. If and when an I space opened up, I upgrade, changing flights and paying a penalty if required, and get my J seat.

If there was no chance of getting an upgrade, then I purchased a full up J class ticket, as I did last December, for $8500. Problem is (for Air Canada at least) I could purchase a full fare J seat for less money on another airline, and actually get a better seat and service than I got on Air Canada.

So AC could have gotten $4000 from me, but instead another airline got $8500. If AC sold that seat that I might have purchased, then perhaps they didn't lose anything. But that would only be the case if that person paid at least as much as I would have. And I suspect they did not.

pmax

Thanks, this is strengthening my argument too. When you're forced into a corner and especially paying lots of money you're no-longer a discriminating customer. You look at whoever has the best price and secondarily at whatever additional features you might get if the price happens to be the same AC's enhancements are resulting in a loss of customers who are willing to pay extra for a few customers who are forced to pay extra. Not smart, and annoying to use who are in the willing category.

BlondeBomber

"Is AC's IT capable of grandfathering some, but not all, passes? How would it know what was a new pass and what was a previous pass? Seems that this battle may be an all or nothing proposition given the notorious limitations of AC's ITs as nice a compromise as it was, Altaflyer."

It would only take a year max from today for this to all work itself out

acysb87

I believe Andrew says it all here.He has a lot of feedback from this thread that senior management team will review.

I am optomistic.

YOWkid

I tend to agree with Simon's point of view.

I am not agreeing/not agreeing with or defending/not defending AC's actions, but just reading the language would suggest that AC could do that -- and they would not be violating the contract. Besides, there's always the "T&Cs can change" clause which covers them entirely.

YOWkid

I should quickly add that if anyone thinks AC has wrongfully changed the T&Cs/the tariff conditions on you, you can always approach the Canadian Transportation Agency after trying to solve the problem directly with AC.

Without prejudging what the Agency might rule, I would suggest you read some of the Agency's previous rulings to get an idea if you have a leg to stand on.

Altaflyer

Unfortunately AC made the terms quite clear ---> Executive Class (J Booking class). Had they not specified J booking class then perhaps they could have an out. I suspect having access to J upgrade at ALL times when J is not zero was a major selling point for this product and you just cannot take away this without exposing yourself to liability. The numbers of passes is likely small in the grand scheme of things and the credits will expire. Honour these and move on. I might say, if the disclaimer had a few "red hands" pointing to it and it was in double sized bold print then maybe AC would have a slightly better position, but I think they would still lose.