YOWkid

But how about the other way around? Did they say that they would make all J available for pass upgrades?

I don't agree/disagree with you, but the other point of view is also valid as there is no language to suggest otherwise...

And I think I know what the Agency would rule in this instance.

Anyway, the debate continues.

Stranger

I seems to me that is precisely what "subject to J availability" means.

Altaflyer

If the flight was marketed and sold as Executive First (International) then I would be upset (not sure if its a breach of contract, potentially not) but as mentioned this is a totally different issue.

YOWkid

Then it depends on your interpretation. "Subject to J availability" < > "whatever remains in J = pass upgrades". What it could mean is that upgrades will be taken from J if it is available.

It all depends on how you want to spin it.

At the end of the day though, it doesn't explicitly say, "passholders will be able to seek free upgrades if any J seats remain at 24 hours prior to departure until all J seats are filled" or "all remaining J seats not sold 24 hours prior to departure can be sought and will be given to passholders until the J cabin is filled". Unless if it says that, I am not sure if you really have a leg to stand on.

But that's just my personal opinion and I'm not a lawyer.

YOWkid

If J is no longer available and only (the old) S is now available, or international J to domestic J on an international flight, then you most likely have a case.

But if it's a switch from international J to domestic J on a domestic flight, you don't have a leg to stand on.

Altaflyer

See link for definition of Contra proferentem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_proferentem

Of course I personally don't feel there is an ambiguity in any event.

YOWkid

.....

robsawatsky

The changes to the wording of the T's & C's are perfectly OK from a legal perspective. It is the retroactive changes to an agreed contract that are the issue.

The clause "subject to change w/o notice" cannot legally be applied to any specific product or service which has already been agreed and paid. To do so makes every term uncertain and therefore void of any contractual construction. Where that clause is valid is in a set of "standard terms and conditions" which are generally applied to any and all customers buying the same product or service at that moment in time. However, the company does not promise to offer that same product or service for all time with the same terms as originally offered or previously amended. The phrase "subject to change w/o notice" ensures there is no legal possibility of misconstruing a promise to an exact offer in perpetuity.

Some may ask about Aeroplan changing their T's & C's; well, Aeroplan is quite clear that they are NOT entering into a contractual agreement with you in regards to membership rights and privileges. The only contract you get with Aeroplan is once an agreement is concluded to exchange points for something of value. It is however true that Aeroplan and its partners can easily run afoul of various competition and marketing laws if they take their rules too lightly.

Altaflyer

What AC has done is contrary to contract law and robsawatsky has added very well thought out info to the discussion.

AC did NOT promise to award a certain number of miles for these flights in the contract, they did promise to upgrade from the "J Booking class" and that is what it is - the last seat in the Executive class section. Somewhere else it may say J class earn X miles but not in this contract so far as I recall. By the way, if AC now decided to make Z class full fare Biz and J the discount version that would not fly either IMHO.

Simon

Folks,

As can be seen by the mass editing of this post, we had a problem with postings from a duplicate handle of a former FlyerTalk member.

These posts, and direct responses to them have been removed.

Where possible, I have tried to restore most people's posts which contributed to the thread itself by only removing those portions that directly responded to the handle above.

There will be times when situations like this arise, and the moderators need to take action on a thread.

The fact that posts may "seem" to have disappeared does not necessarily mean that they "have", but that they are under review, perhaps for a myriad of reasons.

If you are concerned about one of your posts, please contact one of the moderators directly, and we will be happy to discuss with you what is going on with your post. Posting about it on the thread will not yield any response you may desire, and is against the terms and conditions you agreed to when you signed up for Flyertalk.

I hope we can continue this very on-topic discussion now that the cleanup has been done.

Simon
Moderator - AC

BlondeBomber

Altaflyer and robsawatsky--hope you are billing AC for your time. It's amazing all the free information one can get on FT.

Sounds like good legal advice to me . . .^

PreferBulkhead

Sojourn received this reply and posted it on CF:

Dear SOJOURN,


As a valued Latitude Flight Pass customer, we would like to clarify policies related to the complimentary upgrade feature included with your flight pass.

Latitude Flight Pass complimentary upgrades - Air Canada Status Mileage accumulation
As you may be aware, the applicable Air Canada Status Miles for the Latitude fare with the use of an upgrade is 100%. Customers purchasing Latitude Flight Passes have been receiving 150% Air Canada Status Miles with their complimentary upgrade.

If you currently hold a Latitude Flight Pass or purchase one by November 15, 2007, you will continue to receive 150% Air Canada Status Miles for complimentary upgrades to Executive Class for the life of the pass. However, in order to align mileage accumulation based on fare purchased, Latitude Flight Passes purchased after November 15, 2007, will accumulate the applicable 100% Air Canada Status Miles for the distance flown, including travel in Executive Class.

Also, if you have flown since August 5, 2007, used your Latitude Flight Pass, received the complimentary upgrade to Executive Class and accumulated 100% Air Canada Status miles, your account will be adjusted to reflect 150% Air Canada Status Miles which will count toward Air Canada 2008 Top Tier Status. Expect this adjustment to occur by November 30, 2007.

Executive Class travel using an Air Canada Top Tier or Corporate upgrade certificate will continue to earn 100% Air Canada Status Miles.

Latitude Flight Pass complimentary upgrade - Availability
We know that upgrades are a salient benefit of the Latitude Flight Pass, so with an eye to balance Air Canada’s commercial considerations and your expectations of priority access to Executive Class, we would like you to be aware that as of January 8, 2008, complimentary upgrades are subject to capacity control on certain flights, no matter when you purchased your Latitude Flight Pass. We appreciate your understanding and will endeavour to make this popular feature as accessible as possible on most of our f lights.

We will continue to keep you posted on any other pertinent information regarding this or any other product through Air Canada and Aeroplan newsletters.

You have the freedom of choice when you choose an airline, thanks for making it Air Canada.

Yours sincerely,


Director, Marketing Innovations

fly-yul

If AC can program the passes to earn COS bonus for the life of the pass then why can't they do the same for the unrestricted upgrades? And what does "are subject to capacity control on certain flights" mean anyway?


The upgrade is an open and shut issue. The terms of use said J booking class.

tcook052

"Please keep in mind that notification on this and all topics is subject to change without notice."

BlondeBomber

Well we have them part way there. Can we drag them the rest of the way?