First of all, this would not work because C class is used for discounted C class tickets such as RTW tickets. So it is impossible to set aside certain number of seats for solely upgrade purposes. Second of all, if everyone is allowed to upgrade at time of booking, how do you differentiate the tiers?

This goes back to my point buried somewhere in this thread. If you start letting people upgrade at time of booking, what you're essentially telling them is that - you don't need to buy full J anymore. By only letting SEs who buy full Y upgrade at time of booking, you are i) guaranteed the full Y revenue (which is fairly close to what the discounted C would be) ii Giving the SEs an exclusive benefit of permanent discounted business class fares. (Buy Y and get J)

Once again, it goes back to the point of - how do you seperate different tiers then? You've got Prestige on a H upgrading before a SE on a H just because they book early? The fact is that many SEs book fairly close to departure date because majority of their travels are for business purposes while most of the Prestige earn their status via leisure travel. So what if a few Prestiges take the pre-allocated C seats, then AC sells out the rest of the J cabin; none of the SEs or Es end up getting C class, wouldn't that be unfair? You don't help an airline's bottom line by booking early.

Remember that upgrade is a benefit. The more you fly, the better that benefit will be. That's why there exist different upgrade window. You're not meant to get upgrade at time of booking if you don't have high status. AC has already started awarding those paying higher fares by letting them upgrade earlier. (i.e. Elites on Y/M can UG 7 days before instead of the usual 4; Prestige on Y/M can UG 4 days before instead of the usual 2. Fair? I think so.)

I already explained the full Y to Europe thing before and I'll explain it again. Flights to/from Europe contain the highest percentage of full fare pax (and lots of them are Elites) because their trips have no Sat night stay . There are lots of people out there willing to pay full Y to upgrade (because that still represents a savings of up to 50% of full J). If they start letting Elites upgrade from H to Europe, they would actually be bringing down revenue. Current full fare levels to Europe are quite acceptable from a business travel point of view.

Seriously, so you think letting even Prestige upgrade from H or higher to all destinations except Europe this benefit year is still not acceptable? This was a drastic change from a year ago when you could only upgrade from Y on all non-NA flights.

There really is nothing wrong with the upgrade benefit. Sorry, but I am still not convinced that the UG program is as bad as some of you are making it sounds. If anything, it's the reward inventory that should be improved.

Yes, like it or not, the current system works for Prestige. If you're talking about Europe, You have my word that if you have bought an upgradeable fare, the chances of getting the upgrade is well over 90%. There are over 300J seats between Canada and LHR alone each day per direction. If they start letting everyone with status upgrade from Y at time of booking, (Keep in mind that the total number of customers with status is over 100K) don't you think people would just completely stop buying J? What stops people from buying full Y, grab a seat in C, then cancel at the last minute (since Y is fully refundable) screwing it up for those who are actually going to be flying on the flight?

If we're talking about how bad D/W availability is, I fully agree with you. If we're talking about the fact that the UG program sucks, you just won't get my sympathy.

[This message has been edited by Empress (edited Nov 19, 2003).]

[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Empress:

Quote:

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First of all, this would not work because C class is used for discounted C class tickets such as RTW tickets. So it is impossible to set aside certain number of seats for solely upgrade purposes.

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Clearly the above is not impossible, just not possible in AC's IT world of today.

I know that AS has a solely upgrade class (U) plus a revenue first class (F). It can be done.

But it makes you wonder though when they can go and add a bunch of economy class booking classes but can't add one extra for business class. Can't or won't?

Probably can't be bothered.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

I won't bother explaining then since that appears to be the attitude some are always taking (like they are always depressed; disect everything to bash as if they are disecting those 100 lines routings on Expedia): They assume AC does everything badly on purpose to screw people; I know some will quote this line and say yes - start to countdown to that happening. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

[This message has been edited by Empress (edited Nov 19, 2003).]

First quote! What's the time?

I think that Hanlon's Razor is appropriate here:
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

I don't mean that they're stupid, but I seriously doubt that AC goes out of their way to create these problems with their booking codes, fare classes, upgrades, and associated rules. A lot of the limitations come from their ancient computer system and I think that we'll be waiting a while to see any major improvements. Maybe if Mr. Li had agreed to cough up another couple of hundred million......

When the aircanada.ca site allows me to purchase an L fare online on the YVR-YYC route I will promise not to complain about their booking engine for 30 days.

Everyone knows that these problems are due to the old AC IT systems. Many enhancements that AC/AP might want to do are limited by this.

Question to the people who think AC "can't be bothered" to do anything et al and slam AC and Empress at any opportunity: where exactly do you presume that AC can come up with the money, especially being in CCAA, to overhaul their IT systems? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Simon

From Victor Li?

Tax Dude

I think you've hit the nail on the head. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

mpc1

Question to the people who think AC is not stupid: who said anything about an overhaul of IT systems? If AC can add a bunch of new economy class booking classes without an overhaul of IT systems, why not add one for business class?

No point answering when whatever answer people provid will be bashed by certain member.

Remember that b/f the CP debacle AC made money and had decent service thatis now coming back.they badly need an overhaul of their IT systems which last were updated probably 10 years ago in a world that changes every 18 months or so.
Your constant nagging about something that does not make economic sense to the airline is stupid.

Again, there's the reference to the overhaul of IT systems. No one asked for that. When domestic web-only fares were rolled out, was there an overhaul of IT systems?