Oh, give me a break. I hardly consider $200 USD for 4 500 milers (status members) or $325 USD for General members as good deal. Then this is the 'Do you know who I am' mentality that you have. Paying the difference between the lowest fare and H is what it cost for a chance at the upgrade. Like I said, until you can establish a trend that you've paid the upgradeable fare and couldn't get upgraded, there is nothing wrong with the system and you should stop complaining. That's right. People are not that obsessed about upgrades as you think. They call, put in a request and usually worry about it when they show up. If they clear at the end of the day, they consider it as a success. I know many reservation and airport agents and this is what I've been told. Does not sound like a brilliant analysis to me. Nothing more than I paid the higher fare then I have to get the upgrade. Otherwise, they are wrong.

They cancel one nonstop YYZ-NRT and it's the end of the world? Like I said, nothing is stopping you from going to UA. I am telling you as an SE who have flown well over 200 flights in the past few years and probably half of those to Asia. I am batting 100% in upgrades on dates and flights I wanted. I've also used 1K SWUs to upgrade on UA numerous times. It's just hard work picking dates with emptier J cabin and I ended up sitting in E- on a few segments.
You keep saying $600-$800, I think it's time you factor in the 'cost' (bought off Ebay?) of the SWUs into your calculations and it will soon become not that good of a deal.

Next year will have way more 1Ks (from the TONS of free status miles they are giving out), lots of SWUs, lot easier to use. I still can't see how that can be an improvement in terms of getting it.

Doesn't that create a thinking in people's mind that they will sit in J no matter what? Wouldn't people stop paying upgradeable fare knowing if there are empty seats, they'll be in J?

Why should it be a right!? Why else would people buy J fares or even upgradeable fare if they know they will be moving up if there are space?

150% status miles for a domestic J fare (that is 50% what it used to cost) and 125% for a discounted C and full fare Y. How is it difficult to get status on high domestic fares? People who do useless mileage run just to make SE is minimal. Not something AC need to worry about. Things they need to worry about are like letting everyone use the MLL as long as they have things like priority pass. Have you seen how crowded the lounges are lately? Impossible to find a single seat at some hours.

If you keep on putting them up front, you will soon find they will be spending way less than $50K because they can now buy cheaper fares and still get a J seat.

BA and BD don't ever upgrade... I was once on a CDG-LHR flight as a *S. The first quarter / third of the 321 was configured as C. There was one person. Y had quite a few people, but nowhere near full. Why didn't they upgrade me (or anyone else for that matter, assuming they had status)? Because we didn't pay for C or D. So why should we get it?

Another time, LHR-AMS was jam packed with tourists. I didn't get it either although I held *S status.

On my last LHR-BRU flight as a *G, I didn't get anything either although C was wide open.

If I always got upgraded, I would expect it each time. Is that what the airline wants you to think? One to constantly have expectations to be upgraded for no "real" reason? From a business view-point, sure, once in a while, why not. But every time? I'm not so sure. European airlines don't upgrade usually for a reason.

But, of course, I could always be wrong...

[This message has been edited by YOWkid (edited Nov 14, 2003).]

Only if the seats were going out empty. If, as you say, J is always full going to Asia people will continue to buy J (or Y/M to upgrade in advance). I think the lower cost domestic J/C fares are fairly priced now, so I'd expect that over time people will start purchasing them and fill up those seats. AC just needs to get its premium pricing right and they'll be able to fill 80% of their front cabin with revenue customers. Why not put SEs in the remaining seats? If they find they're comping more than a couple of low-fare customers per flight their pricing is not right.

It's just my opinion, but I think that BD should have upgraded you if you held top status on the BD FF plan. Maybe even if you had just achieved mid-tier status through them. (Not if it was on an affiliate's program though.) I think anyone who contributes substantial $$ to a company should be treated like a good customer and singled out for special attention. It's not an original idea. If you hold Platinum status with Starwood's Preferred Guest program you can expect to be regularly upgraded to a suite when you check in if one is available. And yes, lots of those people would never pay for a suite in the first place but they still contribute a lot of money to Starwood's bottom line. I see nothing wrong with AC identifying their top customers and rewarding them for their business when possible.

I was probably too enthusiastic when I suggested that J seats "be filled according to status". Only AC's high-value customers should get bumped up. The current P/E/SE system really doesn't identify those customers well.

Huh? If they are comping people into J class, that means they have bought in more money than they could have if they just sold the number of seats = capacity of Y. J is often not that full on domestic flights because of the way AC's fleet is set up. You have hourly flights between YYZ & YVR and there are often international configured aircrafts. You could have up to 42J seats per flight. No matter how good your airline is, you just won't be able to fill all those seats every hour.

[This message has been edited by Empress (edited Nov 14, 2003).]

They are rewarded with the Super Elite status that give them exclusive benefits such as concierge access, no capacity control and the upgrade benefit is basically giving them a permanent discount off full J. It is irrelevant whether the Super Elite status contain members that make their status on low fares. (That is selfish to say they shouldn't belong there) Now, to say AC should develop an [i]additional[/b] qualification criteria based on revenue spent, then that makes more sense. They have already started moving towards that on domestic flights by rewarding a lot more Q miles for higher fare types. The SPG Platinum analogy really doesn't make sense in this case - an airline seat & a hotel room is two completely different product.

Where do you draw the line? If they regularly get upgraded to J, what incentive will they have to buy at least H class to upgrade? You set an expectation in people's mind and if you fail to meet it once, that piss them off more than anything. This is no different than when you get a comp upgrade once, you always hope for it. So if people were told they are upgraded because they are considered as high revenue, the minute they are told they won't get it on a flight because it's full, they will start asking 'why? Do you know how much revenue I bring into the airline?'.

Speaking of upgrades. Why do people seem to think that it's very easy to get an upgrade on UA? On a recent ORD-HKG flight, there were over 50 people fighting to get an upgrade. Do you think as a SE, you will get the upgrade over a 2P or 1P?

You can't get something unless you pay for it. If you can only want to spend 100 on a particular flight and that fare is not upgradeable. Too bad.

If AC has a choice, it will drop all non-essential domestic routes and operate like a CX or SQ (higher margin). Wait, CX and SQ don't really offer easy upgrades...



[This message has been edited by Scott218 (edited Nov 14, 2003).]

That is the exact point I was trying to make. With more 1Ks + more SWUs + more people trying to use them because it's from any fare, it'll even be more impossible.

SE status is supposed to put you behind 1Ks and 1Ps on the DM list (Departure management, UA's waitlist on day of departure). Sometimes the number of 1Ks + 1Ps already > number of C seats.

I was miffed in Singapore this week when the guard would not let me into the area for 1K's etc to checkin. She sent me around to the Star-Gold section. When I looked back there was a lineup of 20-25 people at the 1K desk and I was 3rd in line at the star-gold desk.

Empress, my SWU were free http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
YYZ-HNL.was that cut? Empress you are in YVR for Asia/SYD it didnt change a thing for you. And I was being nice today, I just said ASIA was more difficult.

You said Asia, I talked about Asia. Only YYZ-NRT was cut and that is not the end of the world. Perhaps you might want know it was not long ago since I moved out to Vancouver. I lived in Toronto for well over 10 years. So don't come as if I don't know what you're talking about.

Well going to UA site they are very excited!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by YOWkid:
[B] BA and BD don't ever upgrade...

Sorry but you are so WRONG about BA! Happened last fri on a Q fare YVR-LHR http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
It like all airlines depends who you are!