Thanks, Empress, for carrying the ball this past week. There is so much focus on UA's international routes, that -- except for FlyerAl -- most have overlooked that UA doesn't offer much opportunity for upgrading on domestic flights. Having just completed a few of these over the past two days, I have noticed one thing: UA flies mainly B737s and A320s, and they all have just 8 F seats.

The point: AC is still selling J at both full and its new discounted C fare levels. UA is not selling F. In fact, like a few other US carriers, if you buy almost full or full Y, and are an elite, you will be upgraded at time of booking, space available, into F. Any remaining seats in F go for upgrades but one needs status to get them early.

But UA has also recognized that the majority of its elites will not be able to upgrade, and that's why it created E+. Aside from the lack of catering and free booze [1Ks get lots of those coupons], when the middle seat is kept empty, it is a pretty nice way to fly.

What AC must learn is to treat its elites better in this regard. Okay, no upgrades to J, then be serious about the Preferred Seating area and keep pitch at at least 32, block the centre seats, and don't let "the rabble" in until every last seat behind the emergency exit row is filled.

It will be interesting to see how high on UA some of us are when those SWUs are not accessible to non-1Ks. Maybe the new e-ones will be transferrable like the HK50s. Maybe they'll be like the regular 500-mile ones, and not.

Agreed. 100%. Unfortunately, I don't think AC has the knowledge of and/or willingness to do this from what they've demonstrated to me time and time again.

Your point may still be valid but UA's 320's are shown to have 12 F seats. 737s and 319s have 8 F seats, which I think is less than it used to be.

My A-320 to RNO had 12 F seats (3 rows). Unusually small F cabin for an A-320, but I was impressed with the immaculate condition of the cabin interiors! It's a shame they'll be replacing DEN-RNO with "Ted". I guess this means next time I'll have to fly to LAS and then connect to an HP segment. FlyerAl only flies First Class http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by FlyerAl (edited Nov 12, 2003).]

The majority of my UA flights are either CRJs on very short hops (ORD-MKE, 13-17 minutes) or on 757s (24 F seats). The remainder are an approximately equal mix of A319/320 (8-12 F seats) and 767s (30 F seats).

Well its nice to know we have a chance to upgrade on UA to those J seats.
AC could give out certs that "at least" give us a chance instead of what available today.
My soulution is simple
AC Gives out certs for lower fares, but they can only be used after the other E and SE have been upgraded on there H certs http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Why would anyone have a problem with this??? FatBoyYVR?

Would I like more upgrades, sure. Does it make sense for AC to do this - no. Is it a reasonable expectation for them to do this - no.
As I say, if it bothers you that much then go fly UA. Enjoy their short haul domestic F service, it is amazing....

By the way, I lost the lotto to HKG this year, on an eligible fare. Thats the way it goes, I am still very happy overall with my upgrades.

Yes, it makes sense (if only limited quantities) in a way on routes where J is never full. However, it'll be a nightmare to implement. Want to give me a proposal as to how you would ensure H+ SEs will clear before H- SEs? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

And where would all the non-revs sit??

Since I'm an AC friend http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif (thanks to meeting folk like shareholder, mpc1, taxdue, seanthepilot, sailaway75 in SIN a few weeks ago), thought I'd read this thread as I occasionally come over to this forum post-SIN.

From what I heard in SIN & have read here, it sounds like AC needs to make some adjustments to their program. Since I haven't flown AC in years, I'm not even going to attempt to chime in on what they should be, other than to say I wish you the best. And if turns out you really really aren't happy w/ AC, then consider taking your $$/derriere elsewhere to UA or AA (I wouldn't recommend DL or CO though!). And if you think AC will 'get it' & implement changes that will benefit you, then stay.

Being a 1K MM on UA (which only means I had my derriere in a plane seat way too much!), overall I'm pleased w/ the 2004 program, and do think that UA, for the most part, is responding to its customers needs/requests (and was probably influenced a bit by those who went to AA because of the 2003 SWU restrictions, taking their revenue w/ them).

Yes, there will be more Premier Execs & 1Ks next year, but it does not mean the sky is falling!

A couple of weeks ago I was in the check-in line & there was a clueless 1K (who had never heard of FT) who used a Sweet Spot for a domestic flight (picture Sharon banging her head against the wall here) cuz he didn't think he'd travel int'ly before they expired & they were good for domestic as well. There have been other instances along the same line that I've observed.

I would guess that just as there are a lot of FTers who do know the ins/outs of the system, there are a lot more who aren't who have no clue & who the new benefits won't influence one way or the other. I have a # of colleagues who, 11 months later, still don't know the restrictions on the 2003 SWUs.

In one UA thread, it was reported that one person has a colleague who travels frequently who hasn't even signed up for a frequent flyer program (heresy). And a report by Randy Peterson that the majority of award tickets are still for economy travel.

I will admit at my status level my upgrades routinely clear, either at time of booking (SWU & SS for intl; HK50s for domestic) or w/in the 100-hour level (500s). I rarely do the gate roulette, but in case that ever occurred I always make sure at time of booking I do have a E+ seat in economy if available or check seatguru.com for other best seats if not.

While UA does run A320s, 737s, A319s, there are still a # of routes they run 767, 777 - and yes even 747 - domestically, so upgrade opps are there. And I don't know that UA will throw that many promos in the pot next year, so some of the new elite flyers may disappear after a year.

The new SWU's ARE transferable (of course the days of them not being collected http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif are gone, since they're going electronic). One thing we UA FF would like to see is UA make the transfer painless, cuz transferring HK50s is a nightmare currently. I'm sure a lot of emails & letters will be sent to UA re: that.

Well, back to the UA forum. Take care; look forward to meeting more ACers on future travels. Cheers.

------------------
Sharon

[This message has been edited by SkiAdcock (edited Nov 13, 2003).]

Empress fair point, give upgrade to SE at gate [or have computer give them 2hrs before] only on SWEETSPOT fares. Any more seats..... then give them to E for any empty J seats... Simple and all it costs AC is a meal.
Or it seems simple to me http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Again all I am saying is AC must come up with a way of being more competitve to the other programs for upgrades. We sure don't need more certs.

Oh and hopefully upgrade before Non Rev seats http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gifFatBoyYVR

Do you hate AC? Do you not want to participate in a disussion to help AP be competitive to other programs? Telling SE customers to leave AC is hardly constuctive. Do you work in Miltons office? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif:

Well, it's not as simple as it sounds. Upgrades are cleared manually on day of departure. The computer cannot read fare class and assign an upgrade to it. What if you've got people on full Y that request an upgrade when they check in? It costs more than a meal, you set an expectation in people's mind. They will expect an upgrade everytime if they get it once. (That 'Do you know who I am' mentality in some people's mind.) Everyone will start buying the lowest fare and hope for an upgrade. So your suggestion will actually cost AC more money than you think.
AC's upgrade program is competitive enough IMO. Seriously. You might have extra certs but there are many SEs out there who run out pretty fast. Ask people who flies domestic only like parnel and cattle.

[This message has been edited by Empress (edited Nov 13, 2003).]

looking at the UA post its seems to be keeping lots of UA members and bring back some who left! Upgrades seems to be what we want, just look how much attention this Topic received. Look at whats happening when upgrade have been 0 out lately.
I have a feeling you are right AC will not improve upgrades.... and in the short term it will hurt and long run it will badly damage AC, its hard to lose a customer and VERY expensive to get them back! AC is not a monopoly anymore.
But I expect the other US airlines are going to improve upgrade awards, to match UA. Lets wait and see....

That pretty much sums it up. Someone who is happy that they are eligible for risk-free upgrades most of the time, and even if they don't come through not only have they not wasted money, they have a reasonable alternative in E+ with automatic space available seat blocking.

As I've often stated, and contrary to many claims, I believe that upgrades are what everyone really wants.

[This message has been edited by Ken hAAmer (edited Nov 14, 2003).]