Read the fine print, they have not been paying their bills and as of the end of the 2nd quarter their AP's exceeded their cash on hand or other equivalents. The monitor highlighted this. Right now all that they have is the debtor in possession financing from GE that they have not drawn on (but have paid all the fees for), the cash advanced to them by CIBC and Am Ex (they have to pay this back in services sometime) the potential $650M from Mr Li if the deal goes through and they plan on going to the market for another $ 450M.

Don't forget the monies from CIBC and AMEX as well;and they still have $1 billion on hand in cash or other securites.Payables also mean they have receivables as well.

Just bought a $1000 fare to LHR over Xmas. Not worried about getting the UG on this 7 days out (if I was I could wait and confirm outbound at time of booking). Seems like a pretty good deal for J to me! Whats crummy about that? Oh wait, I should have only had to pay $600 or $400 or...hell, they should fly me for free!!!! Dont they know who I am??

Also, if I was flying UA (and if I was a 1K) I would have no way (except miles) to upgrade this trip. I have done enough international trips this year that I would long ago have run out of SWUs or SweetSpots or anything else they would have sent me. With all the certs from AC I know I can UG this trip and perhaps another to LHR I will need to make a week before, without resorting to eBay.

E+ is really not that big a deal. I have done SIN on UA in E+ and HKG on AC in Y. Both are not nice, but the difference is not great. Y is still Y. Also, I hate 747s in Y, those rows of 3 seats just feel cramped compared to the 2 on a 343.

[This message has been edited by FatBoyYVR (edited Nov 18, 2003).]

I thought it was a condition of continued CCAA protection that they not do this. What gives?

You sure you paid $1000? I think you paid way less than that and I can assure you that you'll be sitting in J.

Let me see, i) You don't like E+' ii) You don't whine about upgrading from the cheapest fare' iii) You take the gamble and you don't say 'If I buy the ticket, i get the upgrade'' iv) You don't know who you are; v) You don't like flying for free.

I don't think you'll be liked based on the above posts. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

haha...

He can always reject the upgrade offer and give it to the needy..

Empress. I am sorry but clearly you dont understand how crummy the program is...let me explain for you:

2 trips to London, the first with 5 segments for $1050 in H. The second will be direct for about $1000. After using some MCOs, - total cost of $1250, for what will be J.

About 23,000 status miles earned, which will put me through 2 thresholds for another 20K plus the 150,000 so another 35K bonus. Oh, and YVR-LHR will be double miles (god this program is awful!) so another 9,500.

Should total out at not far off 90,000 miles. Hey that is enough for a free J ticket back to London.
So, looks to me like it is costing me $1250 for 3 J tickets to Europe. And another truckload of UG certs to keep me flying through the last few months!

Shocking, they really need to improve things, wish I was flying UA....

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Geez, thanks so much for setting me straight!

I just forgot you're taking a risk by paying a bit more for a chance at an upgrade. You are really brave because as per the agent, there are only 35 J seats left on your flight; did you think twice before taking the gamble? You could buy the SWEETSPOTS on that airline that offers anytime upgrade even though 100 other passengers out there are planning to do the same. I am sure by telling them "Do you know who I am", you'll go right to the top of the list because rumour is that that airline treat S/E better by always giving them comp upgrade to J.

I think the stupidest thing you've done is - you should have bought the lowest possible fare (which was $60 cheaper than H) becuase they should upgrade you since some considered it as a right to sit in J on the lowest fare.

But seriously, I am glad someone like you are finally seeing the light to the point of my posts in this thread.

[This message has been edited by Empress (edited Nov 18, 2003).]

Good for you FatBoy. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif But remember you're a SE. E/P can only upgrade from full Y on trans-atlantic flights. So, the system doesn't work for everyone. This is not to say that the system is bad, just that there's room for improvement.

For example, I think it would be nice if a block of J seats were set aside on each flight for upgrading at time of booking (rather than having to wait for the 7, 4, or 1 day upgrade window for SE/E/P). Note that this need not replace the current upgrade window system -- the majority of upgradable J seats could still be alloted through the 7/4/1 day system, but a few of these seats would be available for immediate upgrading. This would allow flyers (esp. E/P members) who are able to plan their flights in advance a decent chance to get an upgrade.

(While I've never tried to get an upgrade as a P-wannabe, I would imagine that it's pretty difficult, since SE and E "jump the queue" so to speak. Under this proposal, P members would have at least have a fair shot of getting upgraded, if they can book their travel far enough in advance.)

Just my 2 cents... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif

ml

I agree it is a bit different for SE, and my post was partly a response to another SE who was complaining about the program. Actually I think on many routes, on an eligible fare you would have no problem getting an UG as P. It might not be confirmed in advance, but would probably work out. I dont see that many full J cabins (excluding when there are op-UGs). I did fine as an Elite for some years with my upgrades http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by FatBoyYVR (edited Nov 18, 2003).]

dupe..



[This message has been edited by FatBoyYVR (edited Nov 18, 2003).]

Sorry, I do keep hitting the edit rather than the quote button. Something is screwy on my Mac....



[This message has been edited by FatBoyYVR (edited Nov 18, 2003).]

Those crummy Macs! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

And it would also prevent AC from possibly selling those seats to customers willing to pay J (or C on many routes) as well as reducing the availability for those who are buying higher fares closer to time of departure. UG at time of booking already exists, in a limited form - one that rewards the most frequent flyers who are also paying high $$ to fly. The bottom line is that UG is about an opportunity to fly up front, it is not a guarantee. If you want to be sure of flying J, there is only easy way, and it even works for Prestige..

Well, I'm not suggesting that masses of seats be set aside, just a few...maybe 15% or less. Upgrading by time-threshold would still be the main mechanism for UGs, and if the same number of pax are upgraded in the end, I don't see this being a big deal.

As for possibly selling those seats to customers -- of course, if people are willing to pay $$$ for J, then sell it to them! But the folks at AC inventory control are the ones who are (presumably) on top of this. If planes are a certain route are routinely going out with J half-empty, what is it going hurt to make a few of these seats available for immediate upgrading? And if the planes are going out with J full, well of course you're not going to make any more seats available for upgrading -- at time of booking or otherwise. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I agree, but it seems that for non-SE, UG at time of booking exists more on paper than in practice. Thinking back to the ticket you just bought, how many people are going to book a flight to LHR just 4 days in advance (or in the case of P, just 1 day in advance) -- because that's what it would take to make UG at time of booking a reality in this situation. (Not to mention they'd need to pay full Y! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif )

Of course, AC should reward its most frequent flyers, and I'm not suggesting that it should try to make less $$. But to claim that UG at time of booking already exists is like claiming all Canadians are equal before the law -- it may be true in theory, but not in practice.

Well, certainly that is the thinking at AC: buying an upgradable fare gives you a chance at an UG, not a guarantee. I'm not really against this (AC's policy is AC's policy), I just don't think we should naturalize this as the only way UGs can be done. There are other models out there, why not consider them? Surely there are ways to keep the best aspects of the current system (heavily slanted towards SEs) while adding some modest improvements for lower-tier members...

I guess I feel that, as a loyalty program, AP should make an effort to give usable benefits to everyone, even to their lowest-tier members. Otherwise, why bother giving them status at all?

To say that the current system works for Prestige seems a bit of a stretch. If I was P and bought a trans-atlantic ticket in full Y (hoping to use a SWU to UG to J) and then got to the airport and found out no J seats were available, I would be pissed! And, realistically, I would not take the gamble of paying 3 to 4x the cost of a discounted economy ticket just for a "chance" at J. On the other hand, if AC offered some limited "upgradable at time of booking" seating, and was able to snag one of those seats, I might be willing to pay full Y. (Well, I wouldn't, but maybe someone with a bigger bank account than I might! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif ) And wouldn't it be better to fill a J seat with a pax paying full Y, rather than with an op-upgrade or letting it go empty?

Yes, AC needs to take care of its best customers (= SEs), but it also needs to throw the masses a few bones every once in a while! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

ml

(edited to fix a typo)

[This message has been edited by musiclover (edited Nov 19, 2003).]