When the hell did I say that!?!
Hard to accomplish that when all people do is bash.

Once again, PLEASE DON'T put words in my mouth. Don't say I said things when I did not. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Frankly why fly, I don't think most FF flyers think that sitting in the front of the bus is a God-given right, as you have so explicitly implied. I think most think that it would be nice to be upgraded -- but that they also realize that they get what they pay for. Furthermore, in terms of rewarding loyalty through ugs, they are theoretically rewarded once in a while and when the back is full.

Look at it this way, why fly. Let's say you go to your favorite Chinese restaurant once every Saturday night with your group of friends. Eventually you get to know the owners as you are their most frequent patrons. Let's say they then give you 10 vouchers to use, which are worth 10% off every meal > $50. You are happy and you use them all up. But, do you expect to get 10% each time with / without the coupon? Do you expect a free dinner? They may give you a free dish once in a while, but definitely not a free dinner! AC upgrade certs are like discount meal coupons in this case. You need to spend a certain amount to take advantage of the discount. They will give you a J seat once in a while to reward your loyalty, but certainly not every time!

Another example so you can get the point better... It's just like if you walk into your favorite winery store, do you expect them to give you a free bottle of wine everytime you walk in? Sure, they may give it to you once a month or two to show they appreciate your business if you frequent them once every Friday, but definitely not everytime you go in!

So to sum up, upgrades are nice, but not a God-given right. One should not expect them all the time. Do I love the ug? Sure, I love it as much as you do. But I also do realize that I will not get a free lunch each time, if ever.

And to boot, instant KK is a very important perk to have. It is definitely one of the best perks around, besides concierge service!

(Edited to add: Keep C class availability out of this one though. That's a different story all together.)

[This message has been edited by YOWkid (edited Nov 24, 2003).]

Am I the only person disturbed by the thought that one can no longer criticize anything about the AP program without having your comments dissected line by line by our resident employee / frequent poster?

Every program has pluses and minuses. For me AP is useless, it is all about reward seat availability and no airline does a worse job of making seats available for their frequent flyers (unless you are SE). Upgrades are nice, but both my ego and girth allow me to sit in a Y class seat, and I am not willing to pay more for a slight chance that I will be able to get the seat (and chance it is for E or below).

For me LH is great, for others UA is fantastic and for some AP is the best program out there. We should allow folks to freely criticize this program, or any other - after the attractiveness of it is in the eye of the beholder.

Also hard to accomplish when some simply cannot accept shortcomings with Air Canada/Aeroplan.

I am one of thos FFs who no longer feels that AC mgmt gives a **** about their frequent domestic travellers think, so why bother dicussing it? Well, there is a small part of me that never gives up hope that this company will turn around and be something that I would be proud to call Air Canada, and my preferred carrier.

Unfortunately, time and time again, they have demonstrated that they really don't care what we think. Period. My most recent example? I left 2 voicemail messages for the MLL coordinator in YUL and to date still have not received a call back nor a letter. Hmmmm, why do you think? Well, I can only guess, but I would say it's because AC could really care less and they demonstrate that by their action (or should I say, inaction).

I have never advocated that we should all be given free upgrades (I almost feel guilty sometime on AS, like I will again this weekend), but once in awhile the company should recognize I chose to fly with them (and put up with lots of both good and horrible experiences) by throwing me a bone. If they think the MLL access if so coveted then I'd but the **** thing to get some of the benefits back and more recognition.

Hi all - your AC compadre (by knowing mpc1, ferrari, taxdude, shareholder, seanthepilot, sailaway75, etc) back here - wow!

4 more pages since the time I posted - about the actual topic (my post, not necesarily others)!

guess all i have to say at this point is that thank goodness UA announcing its' bennies gave you all the chance to talk about the good, the bad, the ugly, the good about your own program, and as i mentioned on pg 3, i truly hope it works out for you all.

and btw - i was told by the folk in sin that ac didn't need moderation cuz you all self-moderated, but i was a bit surprised reading through the thread how many personal attacks there were, so maybe just a wee bit more on topic & not against others would be nice. i make the same comments on ua forum, but of course we have moderators saying knock it off you knuckleheads http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

------------------
Sharon

Ski

Good to see you online.

Yep the AC board, and some topics like this one, seem to be a bit chipper than usual; but, I hope and think that we Canucks can keep our tradition of being a moderator-less board.

But it would be great if Aeroplan could announce the plan benefits before the end of the year.

Cheers

mpc1

I agree with the "upgrade once in a while" concept. However, how should this be established? Should AC only op up E, SE for their support or people who are not E or SE but fly Y/M/B fares?

I really see this op up because of loyalty as a difficult thing to implement. For every seat that is used to op up is one less seat for upgrade. If AC uses revenue as a benchmark to handout the op up, then all the elite flyers might have an uproar.
If elite flyers are routinely given op up, then we will have issues on 1) who deserves an op up (why am I not as lucky as you) and 2) who needs to play aerolotto and buy a higher fare ticket if I get op up anyway.

My 2 cents...
If you're a E or SE with a Y/M/B ticket, I'm up for the idea of op up. If not, good luck playing aerolotto.

I have heard from a few agents that Full Y will be upgraded if the need arises, overbooked etc, and these will be over SE's & E.

So being an SE on lower that Y will not help...

I am so glad I have down my flying for the year!.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Empress:
[B] There really is nothing wrong with the upgrade benefit. Sorry, but I am still not convinced that the UG program is as bad as some of you are making it sounds. If anything, it's the reward inventory that should be improved.



Empress I will go back and change my post Sorry

[QUOTE]Originally posted by YOWkid:
[b]Frankly why fly, I don't think most FF flyers think that sitting in the front of the bus is a God-given right, as you have so explicitly implied. I think most think that it would be nice to be upgraded --

Let me say it again, I thing upgrades need to be improved???? My #1 change wanted form Aeroplan for next year!
#2 improvement, MORE inventory for "free Seats"
I like UA system better MHO, I have never said to sit in the front is a God-given right! If I did please quote me!
I can't beat you with a wet noodle as you will see i incorrectly quoted or atributed comments to Empress http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scott218:
[B]I agree with the "upgrade once in a while" concept. However, how should this be established? Should AC only op up E, SE for their support or people who are not E or SE but fly Y/M/B fares?

OK when we get our packages next year AC can give us some upgrade certs for LOWER fares like UA sweetspots, that seems to be a fair way to give us a useable PERK for flying with AC.

I have used lots and lots of upgrade certs this year, and i think many other people have too. They are a TOTALLY useable perk. However, it seems that you are not willing (or not able) to listen to anyone who sets out, in careful detail, the difference between UA and ACs upgrade systems., so I have no doubt you will continue to focus on the sweetspot issue. As I keep saying, if you like them that much, go fly UA.

Just a kind reminder that I was Elite until June this year when I hit 62k miles for early SE qualification. In that whole time I didn't miss one single upgrade. All were done prior to day of departure.

I have had a harder time as a SE since they messed with C inventory. I still haven't missed an upgrade but being forced to change flight schedules to get the upgrade isn't appreciated. I will choose times that give me the upgrade but it sure is annoying but I have to agree that upgrade certs are a definite usable and appreciated benefit.

OK, I wouldn't mind a any fare type upgrade cert or two but wouldn't take it if it meant less upgrade certs overall.

Easier said than done for many of us since UA only serves YVR, YYC, YEG, YWG, YYZ and YUL.

Is there any chance that you would be interesting in working for RM's office?