Dec 31, 2018, 5:37 pm
Last edit by: tcook052
This new annual thread has been carved out of the previous thread in an effort to reduce the number of megathreads on the AC forum. For those interested previous versions are the original 2004 - 2014 thread , 2015 edition, 2016 edition , 2017 edition and 2018 edition.
The original thread started by accident but quickly became a popular place to come and discuss off topic things such as hockey, new movies, or almost anything that wouldn't fit into existing AC forum threads. Air Canada or Aeroplan topics such as flight feedback, in-flight services issues, status or mileage earning/redemption are all topics that should go into existing AC forum threads so others can benefit from this information. Topics about hotels or airlines and/or their loyalty programs, destinations, in-flight travel tech. or anything best discussed elsewhere on FT may be relocated to that forum as this thread isn't meant to import travel topics to this forum that are better discussed on other forums. FT is an amazingly diverse and large community so members are encouraged to seek out all of its resources.
While the conversation is more relaxed as it would be in a lounge that doesn't mean however that the FT rules don't apply here as they definitely do so please refrain from controversial topics such as politics or religion, avoid profanities and treat other lounge patrons with the same respect you expect.
tcook052
Air Canada forum moderator
The original thread started by accident but quickly became a popular place to come and discuss off topic things such as hockey, new movies, or almost anything that wouldn't fit into existing AC forum threads. Air Canada or Aeroplan topics such as flight feedback, in-flight services issues, status or mileage earning/redemption are all topics that should go into existing AC forum threads so others can benefit from this information. Topics about hotels or airlines and/or their loyalty programs, destinations, in-flight travel tech. or anything best discussed elsewhere on FT may be relocated to that forum as this thread isn't meant to import travel topics to this forum that are better discussed on other forums. FT is an amazingly diverse and large community so members are encouraged to seek out all of its resources.
While the conversation is more relaxed as it would be in a lounge that doesn't mean however that the FT rules don't apply here as they definitely do so please refrain from controversial topics such as politics or religion, avoid profanities and treat other lounge patrons with the same respect you expect.
tcook052
Air Canada forum moderator
The Forum Lounge Thread (2019)
Jan 24, 2019, 1:46 am
#241
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,775
Shocking that it's going to be so half-assed.
Jan 24, 2019, 9:11 am
#242
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,232
I have a Tweet template that I use almost every time I arrive back home and there's no cabs at YVR (and of course no Uber). It copies the minister responsible for our wonderful, made in BC, real-soon-now Uber/Lyft policy, the Premier, the Leader of the Opposition and a ride sharing group.
But I'd really like not having to send these at some point. Sigh.
But I'd really like not having to send these at some point. Sigh.
Jan 24, 2019, 9:32 am
#243
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,612
Overall yes it’s better... but at least if your cab doesn’t turn up you don’t have to fight Uber to get a $5 refund for wasted time.
Jan 24, 2019, 10:10 am
#244
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,569
Ugh. How is it that people can get to a point for working for a real job but have no adulting skills?
(a) until the merge happens, we are two different companies who must operate as different companies. The SEC does not like collusion. People would go to jail for not-operating as different companies
(b) the small group of executives working on the merger can't tell you anything because (a). They are for sure aware of the risk of going to jail.
(c) that question is not an exception to (b)
(d) that question also is not an exception to (b)
(e) that question also is not an exception to (b)
(f) that question also is not an exception to (b)
(a) until the merge happens, we are two different companies who must operate as different companies. The SEC does not like collusion. People would go to jail for not-operating as different companies
(b) the small group of executives working on the merger can't tell you anything because (a). They are for sure aware of the risk of going to jail.
(c) that question is not an exception to (b)
(d) that question also is not an exception to (b)
(e) that question also is not an exception to (b)
(f) that question also is not an exception to (b)
Jan 24, 2019, 11:39 am
#245
Join Date: May 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC e75K, *G, SPG/MR PPE
Posts: 315
Things like... not returning e-mails after asking for a favour, not following clearly laid out directions, making very inappropriate comments to company representatives, etc. I had one candidate basically turn into a stalker trying to reach me after we didn't bring him in for a second round interview - and that was after I explicitly told him I couldn't comment on his candidacy until after the entire process was complete.
Oh and there's one guy whose LinkedIn photo is him wearing sunglasses and looking like a total "party bro". He asked me for advice when I met him during that program's orientation week on how to best position himself for a job. He ignored all of the advice and then had the program contact me directly for feedback on why he didn't get asked to an interview.
This is one of the many factors why I drink.
Jan 24, 2019, 2:45 pm
#246
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,347
Waterloo engineering intern interview:
"What do you know about the company?"
"Uhhhhh... not much"
So I explained what we do.
"Why do you want to work here?"
"I have some friends that interned there and I heard you have a really awesome bar"
If they'd been technically good, it might have been a tough call (or at least a debate). Luckily, they weren't, so it was an easy one.
Meanwhile, I started receiving clearly automated (but made to look real) from a hiring manager about 2 weeks after I declined his offer (we couldn't agree on compensation). "Your profile looks interesting" etc. And I kept getting follow-ups.
So the bad behavior exists on both sides of the hiring process.
"What do you know about the company?"
"Uhhhhh... not much"
So I explained what we do.
"Why do you want to work here?"
"I have some friends that interned there and I heard you have a really awesome bar"
If they'd been technically good, it might have been a tough call (or at least a debate). Luckily, they weren't, so it was an easy one.
Meanwhile, I started receiving clearly automated (but made to look real) from a hiring manager about 2 weeks after I declined his offer (we couldn't agree on compensation). "Your profile looks interesting" etc. And I kept getting follow-ups.
So the bad behavior exists on both sides of the hiring process.
Jan 24, 2019, 2:51 pm
#247
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,132
if he/she/they did then I have even less hope for my children’s future than I did 3 minutes ago.
Jan 24, 2019, 2:53 pm
#248
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
I also conduct extensive interviews for clients; this sort of thing does happen from time to time.
Jan 24, 2019, 2:58 pm
#249
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
A recent recruitment experience for me:
Phone screen
HR: "This is our pay band"
Me: "We're in the right ballpark but that is a bit low, I just want to let you know now you'll have to go higher than that if/when we get to that point"
1st interview
HR: "This is our pay band"
Me: "As I mentioned on the phone, the high end of that is less than I'm looking for, so we probably shouldn't continue further unless you are willing to go higher"
HR: "OK"
2nd interview: "This is our pay band" (same numbers)
Me: "I'm interested in this position, but that's too low and not competitive for this type of position."
Offer (high end of original pay band)
Me: "Here is my counter offer."
HR: "Sorry, we absolutely can't go any higher."
Phone screen
HR: "This is our pay band"
Me: "We're in the right ballpark but that is a bit low, I just want to let you know now you'll have to go higher than that if/when we get to that point"
1st interview
HR: "This is our pay band"
Me: "As I mentioned on the phone, the high end of that is less than I'm looking for, so we probably shouldn't continue further unless you are willing to go higher"
HR: "OK"
2nd interview: "This is our pay band" (same numbers)
Me: "I'm interested in this position, but that's too low and not competitive for this type of position."
Offer (high end of original pay band)
Me: "Here is my counter offer."
HR: "Sorry, we absolutely can't go any higher."
Jan 24, 2019, 3:00 pm
#250
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,132
Mind you, some of the twentysomethings I work with in my various locations leave my jaw on the floor sometimes. Particularly bad in North America but Europe isn’t too far behind.
We should petition for a mandatory 12th grade course called “Adulting: How to be less of an idiot than you are today”
Jan 24, 2019, 3:15 pm
#251
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
Perhaps they don’t actually want the job? Can people, regardless of age, really be that stupid?
Mind you, some of the twentysomethings I work with in my various locations leave my jaw on the floor sometimes. Particularly bad in North America but Europe isn’t too far behind.
We should petition for a mandatory 12th grade course called “Adulting: How to be less of an idiot than you are today”
Jan 24, 2019, 3:20 pm
#252
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,569
A recent recruitment experience for me:
Phone screen
HR: "This is our pay band"
Me: "We're in the right ballpark but that is a bit low, I just want to let you know now you'll have to go higher than that if/when we get to that point"
1st interview
HR: "This is our pay band"
Me: "As I mentioned on the phone, the high end of that is less than I'm looking for, so we probably shouldn't continue further unless you are willing to go higher"
HR: "OK"
2nd interview: "This is our pay band" (same numbers)
Me: "I'm interested in this position, but that's too low and not competitive for this type of position."
Offer (high end of original pay band)
Me: "Here is my counter offer."
HR: "Sorry, we absolutely can't go any higher."
Phone screen
HR: "This is our pay band"
Me: "We're in the right ballpark but that is a bit low, I just want to let you know now you'll have to go higher than that if/when we get to that point"
1st interview
HR: "This is our pay band"
Me: "As I mentioned on the phone, the high end of that is less than I'm looking for, so we probably shouldn't continue further unless you are willing to go higher"
HR: "OK"
2nd interview: "This is our pay band" (same numbers)
Me: "I'm interested in this position, but that's too low and not competitive for this type of position."
Offer (high end of original pay band)
Me: "Here is my counter offer."
HR: "Sorry, we absolutely can't go any higher."
With that said, absent some massive change in life structure, and I was looking for change, rather then just fishing around, if my current number was higher then their high end band right off the first phone call, I'd say my minimal need, which would be no less than 120% of my current level.
If they say impossible, I'd stop talking to them. Some companies simply do not have room to change. Government for sure does not have room to change.
I rarely look at, let alone post to, linked in. But I have a status update essentially saying: recruiters, do not "talk" to me. Send me a link to a job listing; I'll apply or not. Do not ask me for my "resume", look at my profile; if we get further, I'll updated it with current information, or not.
I don't have enough time to waste on keeping someone else's funnel full when I know I won't pop out the end (or want to).
Jan 24, 2019, 3:40 pm
#253
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,347
It was annoying because we get 500+ applications for ~10 positions, so we only interview ~50, meaning this person took a spot away from one of 450 other people who may have actually wanted the job for sane reasons.
Jan 24, 2019, 3:55 pm
#254
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
As my last two job offers were provided to me when I was into EI, and also 20% and 50% higher then my then previous jobs, my personal salary negotiating skills consist of saying "yes".
With that said, absent some massive change in life structure, and I was looking for change, rather then just fishing around, if my current number was higher then their high end band right off the first phone call, I'd say my minimal need, which would be no less than 120% of my current level.
If they say impossible, I'd stop talking to them. Some companies simply do not have room to change. Government for sure does not have room to change.
I rarely look at, let alone post to, linked in. But I have a status update essentially saying: recruiters, do not "talk" to me. Send me a link to a job listing; I'll apply or not. Do not ask me for my "resume", look at my profile; if we get further, I'll updated it with current information, or not.
I don't have enough time to waste on keeping someone else's funnel full when I know I won't pop out the end (or want to).
With that said, absent some massive change in life structure, and I was looking for change, rather then just fishing around, if my current number was higher then their high end band right off the first phone call, I'd say my minimal need, which would be no less than 120% of my current level.
If they say impossible, I'd stop talking to them. Some companies simply do not have room to change. Government for sure does not have room to change.
I rarely look at, let alone post to, linked in. But I have a status update essentially saying: recruiters, do not "talk" to me. Send me a link to a job listing; I'll apply or not. Do not ask me for my "resume", look at my profile; if we get further, I'll updated it with current information, or not.
I don't have enough time to waste on keeping someone else's funnel full when I know I won't pop out the end (or want to).
Previously, my job searches have been of "I need a new job right now" variety, which as you noted does not lend itself to negotiating salary. My current job was a jump up in seniority so it came with a significant pay increase without having to demand anything.
With regard to government, I have no idea how they hire anyone at all since not only does their recruiting process take up to and exceeding a year (I once got an offer from the BC government around 18 months after the initial application/interview process), but even after accounting for DB pension benefits their salaries for engineers seem to be at no more than 70% of market rates.
Jan 24, 2019, 4:23 pm
#255
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,347
That's all good advice and I've certainly learned from this to get more aggressive with salary expectations sooner in the process to avoid wasting everyone's time.
Previously, my job searches have been of "I need a new job right now" variety, which as you noted does not lend itself to negotiating salary. My current job was a jump up in seniority so it came with a significant pay increase without having to demand anything.
With regard to government, I have no idea how they hire anyone at all since not only does their recruiting process take up to and exceeding a year (I once got an offer from the BC government around 18 months after the initial application/interview process), but even after accounting for DB pension benefits their salaries for engineers seem to be at no more than 70% of market rates.
Previously, my job searches have been of "I need a new job right now" variety, which as you noted does not lend itself to negotiating salary. My current job was a jump up in seniority so it came with a significant pay increase without having to demand anything.
With regard to government, I have no idea how they hire anyone at all since not only does their recruiting process take up to and exceeding a year (I once got an offer from the BC government around 18 months after the initial application/interview process), but even after accounting for DB pension benefits their salaries for engineers seem to be at no more than 70% of market rates.