Nov 20, 2017, 2:16 pm
Last edit by: Argonaut1000
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
- Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
- Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
- Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
- Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight
Feb 17, 2019, 4:14 pm
#1066
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Feb 17, 2019, 4:22 pm
#1067
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
James, maybe you could peruse the various YouTube trip reports and include the issues the video reporters have encountered. This one:
was a summertime flight on AC008 (77W, Seat 6A). This person had luck with the FA reset, and mentioned nothing about the need for a camping pad.
Feb 17, 2019, 4:35 pm
#1068
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
Many people have voiced similar sentiments, yet not reduced their rapid pace of status accumulation with Air Canada. I am really beginning to wonder: what is the point of this thread (and its wiki)?
Kudos to those of you who, because of the unreliable business seat comfort, have quit (taken their premium travel dollars to other airlines).
Kudos to those of you who, because of the unreliable business seat comfort, have quit (taken their premium travel dollars to other airlines).
Feb 17, 2019, 4:45 pm
#1069
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Many people have voiced similar sentiments, yet not reduced their rapid pace of status accumulation with Air Canada. I am really beginning to wonder: what is the point of this thread (and its wiki)?
.....
Kudos to those of you who, because of the unreliable business seat comfort, have quit (taken their premium travel dollars to other airlines).
.....
Kudos to those of you who, because of the unreliable business seat comfort, have quit (taken their premium travel dollars to other airlines).
Enough.
You made your point repeatedly in this thread and to me outside of FT as well.
You also know all the reasons people choose to fly AC. Read the UA and AA forums, or even CX these days, or non-FT forums and blogs. Lots of miserable high-value pax everywhere.
We all accept that you made your choice to credit to UA and fly them. You had your reasons. Chastising all those who fly AC will not be a reasons for anyone to leave AC.
This is not just about taking your money elsewhere.
This is about making sure the problem is publicly identified, documented and increasingly widely known. You are not helping by hinting that we are our own victims for flying and crediting to AC.
You may not like it, but far more fly AC than those who read or post on AC FT. Loads may change or they may not. Either the seat problem will become more widely know and then slowly affect AC, or not. People will choose to not pay for J, or not. None of that is really up to anyone else to decide.
We are posting here about the seats, the issues with AC not communicating with its best customers or at least the ones who live in those seats. We are posting about brightly-colorer inflatables. You are smart enough to understand why.
.
Last edited by 24left; Feb 17, 2019 at 5:03 pm Reason: spelling
Feb 17, 2019, 5:16 pm
#1070
Join Date: Mar 2008
Programs: AC SE MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 904
I will be setting up a spreadsheet soon to log these issues. Here are the fields I'm thinking of tracking:
-James
- Fin #
- Flight #
- Route
- Date Discovered
- Last Checked
- Seat #
- Issue
- Steps Taken to Resolve
- Compensation (eMCO, coupon, fare difference, etc.)
- Green - Issue has been present for under a week
- Yellow - Issue has been present for 1-2 weeks
- Red - Issue has been present for 2-4 weeks
- Violet - Issue has been present for more than a month
-James
Feb 17, 2019, 5:21 pm
#1071
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
Originally Posted by 24left
Enough.
This has nothing to do with any other airline, FT forum or its disgruntled members.
This has nothing to do with why I left Aeroplan (it wasn't because of flat seats).
It has nothing to do with people who choose (or are obliged) to fly with AC, none of whom are victims.
Nor does this have to do with loads, numbers of people who fly with AC, and who may or may not be aware of the deflating issue.
The comments about the seats, the causes, the fixes, the company communications and the remedies have been beaten...to...death. I think any hopes of this thread spurring action within the company must have been er, deflated long ago. Some of AC's most frequent flyers have been reporting and complaining about this issue for well over two years now, and........nothing.
Perhaps the addition of a scathing wiki list will create ripples within Corporate HQ.
24, of all members here, your overseas travel is largely discretionary, voluntary and done mainly for the sake of flying itself. Which is great - you clearly enjoy the opportunities, and few of us have the means or time to devote to such frequent leisure travel. However, opting to take so many flights in these seats will increase your chances of encountering deflation issues. I'm just left wondering what can be achieved by rewarding the company that literally lets you down in, what was it, 3 of 4 recent flights I think you've stated in several threads? Only you can answer that, as we each have our own reasons for flying (or leaving) a given airline.
I have no comment about people who continue to spend large sums to fly in AC's seats that may well disappoint.
I have commented that I don't understand why people spend to fly with AC, complain repeatedly, yet continue spending to fly with AC, despite the presence of excellent options. If the issue is serious enough to cause a defection, then defect. If not, then carry on. Stoically.
Feb 17, 2019, 5:32 pm
#1072
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
I think you have interpreted the fact I quoted your comment as being directed at you. Not so.
This has nothing to do with any other airline, FT forum or its disgruntled members.
This has nothing to do with why I left Aeroplan (it wasn't because of flat seats).
It has nothing to do with people who choose (or are obliged) to fly with AC, none of whom are victims.
Nor does this have to do with loads, numbers of people who fly with AC, and who may or may not be aware of the deflating issue.
The comments about the seats, the causes, the fixes, the company communications and the remedies have been beaten...to...death. I think any hopes of this thread spurring action within the company must have been er, deflated long ago. Some of AC's most frequent flyers have been reporting and complaining about this issue for well over two years now, and........nothing.
Perhaps the addition of a scathing wiki list will create ripples within Corporate HQ.
24, of all members here, your overseas travel is largely discretionary, voluntary and done mainly for the sake of flying itself. Which is great - you clearly enjoy the opportunities, and few of us have the means or time to devote to such frequent leisure travel. However, opting to take so many flights in these seats will increase your chances of encountering deflation issues. I'm just left wondering what can be achieved by rewarding the company that literally lets you down in, what was it, 3 of 4 recent flights I think you've stated in several threads? Only you can answer that, as we each have our own reasons for flying (or leaving) a given airline.
I have no comment about people who continue to spend large sums to fly in AC's seats that may well disappoint.
I have commented that I don't understand why people spend to fly with AC, complain repeatedly, yet continue spending to fly with AC, despite the presence of excellent options. If the issue is serious enough to cause a defection, then defect. If not, then carry on. Stoically.
This has nothing to do with any other airline, FT forum or its disgruntled members.
This has nothing to do with why I left Aeroplan (it wasn't because of flat seats).
It has nothing to do with people who choose (or are obliged) to fly with AC, none of whom are victims.
Nor does this have to do with loads, numbers of people who fly with AC, and who may or may not be aware of the deflating issue.
The comments about the seats, the causes, the fixes, the company communications and the remedies have been beaten...to...death. I think any hopes of this thread spurring action within the company must have been er, deflated long ago. Some of AC's most frequent flyers have been reporting and complaining about this issue for well over two years now, and........nothing.
Perhaps the addition of a scathing wiki list will create ripples within Corporate HQ.
24, of all members here, your overseas travel is largely discretionary, voluntary and done mainly for the sake of flying itself. Which is great - you clearly enjoy the opportunities, and few of us have the means or time to devote to such frequent leisure travel. However, opting to take so many flights in these seats will increase your chances of encountering deflation issues. I'm just left wondering what can be achieved by rewarding the company that literally lets you down in, what was it, 3 of 4 recent flights I think you've stated in several threads? Only you can answer that, as we each have our own reasons for flying (or leaving) a given airline.
I have no comment about people who continue to spend large sums to fly in AC's seats that may well disappoint.
I have commented that I don't understand why people spend to fly with AC, complain repeatedly, yet continue spending to fly with AC, despite the presence of excellent options. If the issue is serious enough to cause a defection, then defect. If not, then carry on. Stoically.
All valid points valid, my friend
Doesn't change the objective of this thread or these reports.
Feb 17, 2019, 6:13 pm
#1073
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
The point of the thread is to track these issues so fellow passengers and most importantly those who can fix the issue are well aware of the problems being faced. Additionally, given ACs reluctance to fix the issue (aside from the token gesture of a coupon) we are now discussing what can be done to force ACs hand on that issue or at least develop workarounds to this very issue.
Some ideas batted around so far include:
- the use of an inflatable pad in an obnoxious colour as protest and workaround
- advising mechanical to come in and swap the bladder
- tracking defects on a Google sheet to publicly list and shame AC to get their act together
- consulting a consumer protection lawyer to see if what AC is doing violates the contract of carriage
There may very well be other options available and part of this forum is thinking of what they are. Honestly, I'd love to hear what fellow forum members think of these options so we can have a unified direction to solving this fiasco.
Finally, not everyone has the luxury of flying to SF to catch a connecting flight on QF, NH, JAL when flying internationally. There is clearly a major schedule and connection gap ACs global service provides which aside from moving elsewhere makes alternatives untenable for many.
-James
Some ideas batted around so far include:
- the use of an inflatable pad in an obnoxious colour as protest and workaround
- advising mechanical to come in and swap the bladder
- tracking defects on a Google sheet to publicly list and shame AC to get their act together
- consulting a consumer protection lawyer to see if what AC is doing violates the contract of carriage
There may very well be other options available and part of this forum is thinking of what they are. Honestly, I'd love to hear what fellow forum members think of these options so we can have a unified direction to solving this fiasco.
Finally, not everyone has the luxury of flying to SF to catch a connecting flight on QF, NH, JAL when flying internationally. There is clearly a major schedule and connection gap ACs global service provides which aside from moving elsewhere makes alternatives untenable for many.
-James
Feb 17, 2019, 9:29 pm
#1074
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
Lofty ideals, but I'm not sure anybody is going to "force AC's hand" on this or any other issue. Surely no-one thinks that carrying inflatable mattresses in an "obnoxious colour" serve as effective protests any more than bright yellow vests worn by enraged Alberta truck drivers will sway the government's position on pipelines. Inflatable mattresses simply serve to provide the individual some modicum of comfort if their seat fails. Given the history of complaints on this and other fora - notwithstanding the long list of CBC and other media outlets' negative stories - I'm not certain that Air Canada is too concerned about being shamed. They're too busy maximizing their revenue and increasing margins to shareholders to devote a rodent's posterior to whether a few customers emit some squeaks about seats that bleed air.
The only unified decision that stands any hope of "solving this fiasco" involves collectively taking your business elsewhere. The beauty of AC's main Canadian hubs is that they're all very well served to Asia and Europe by competing carriers. Not sure why a connecting trip to SF was suggested when one can simply take most of those carriers nonstop from YYZ, YVR and to lesser degrees, YUL and YYC.
The only unified decision that stands any hope of "solving this fiasco" involves collectively taking your business elsewhere. The beauty of AC's main Canadian hubs is that they're all very well served to Asia and Europe by competing carriers. Not sure why a connecting trip to SF was suggested when one can simply take most of those carriers nonstop from YYZ, YVR and to lesser degrees, YUL and YYC.
Feb 18, 2019, 12:51 am
#1075
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC 50k 1MM, Marriott LT Titanium Elite
Posts: 3,402
Lofty ideals, but I'm not sure anybody is going to "force AC's hand" on this or any other issue. Surely no-one thinks that carrying inflatable mattresses in an "obnoxious colour" serve as effective protests any more than bright yellow vests worn by enraged Alberta truck drivers will sway the government's position on pipelines. Inflatable mattresses simply serve to provide the individual some modicum of comfort if their seat fails. Given the history of complaints on this and other fora - notwithstanding the long list of CBC and other media outlets' negative stories - I'm not certain that Air Canada is too concerned about being shamed. They're too busy maximizing their revenue and increasing margins to shareholders to devote a rodent's posterior to whether a few customers emit some squeaks about seats that bleed air.
The only unified decision that stands any hope of "solving this fiasco" involves collectively taking your business elsewhere. The beauty of AC's main Canadian hubs is that they're all very well served to Asia and Europe by competing carriers. Not sure why a connecting trip to SF was suggested when one can simply take most of those carriers nonstop from YYZ, YVR and to lesser degrees, YUL and YYC.
The only unified decision that stands any hope of "solving this fiasco" involves collectively taking your business elsewhere. The beauty of AC's main Canadian hubs is that they're all very well served to Asia and Europe by competing carriers. Not sure why a connecting trip to SF was suggested when one can simply take most of those carriers nonstop from YYZ, YVR and to lesser degrees, YUL and YYC.
Also YYC should not be included above.
Feb 18, 2019, 4:38 am
#1076
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,347
838 7D completely deflated at boarding. Rondelle reset worked for remainder of flight.
838 7G lumbar was deflated, but I only noticed when I tried to sleep. 6G was available so the SD moved me there and I didn't look back.
So 2 of the 3 we tried this flight were deflated.
838 7G lumbar was deflated, but I only noticed when I tried to sleep. 6G was available so the SD moved me there and I didn't look back.
So 2 of the 3 we tried this flight were deflated.
Feb 18, 2019, 7:44 am
#1078
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
May I make a suggestion, having unfortunately experienced my first major unresolvable deflation on AC 17 to Taipei last Wednesday.
how might this get AC attention? Maybe when the Advertising Standards Council, which Air Canada is a proud member of public really rebukes AC for false advertising. While ASC is a voluntary organization, without teeth, the power of the pen broadly distributed may have remarkable corporate impact.
My sole complaint will make little impact, yet, if ASC were to receive 10 or 20 complaints in short order that AirCanada widely publicize Signature Service to include this feature, which I would observe when deflated is no longer lie flat, this might also be a route for getting AC attention.
Have always believed that Fortune favors the bold, which of course has drawn ire from some on this forum who object to my boldness - if you think you can actually accomplish change thru collective action, send me a PM and I’ll send you the draft letter when it’s done in the next week or so.
and if you intend to shoot down this idea, fair enough, but please expect my reply, what’s your better alternative ?
how might this get AC attention? Maybe when the Advertising Standards Council, which Air Canada is a proud member of public really rebukes AC for false advertising. While ASC is a voluntary organization, without teeth, the power of the pen broadly distributed may have remarkable corporate impact.
My sole complaint will make little impact, yet, if ASC were to receive 10 or 20 complaints in short order that AirCanada widely publicize Signature Service to include this feature, which I would observe when deflated is no longer lie flat, this might also be a route for getting AC attention.
Have always believed that Fortune favors the bold, which of course has drawn ire from some on this forum who object to my boldness - if you think you can actually accomplish change thru collective action, send me a PM and I’ll send you the draft letter when it’s done in the next week or so.
and if you intend to shoot down this idea, fair enough, but please expect my reply, what’s your better alternative ?
Safe Travels,
James
Feb 18, 2019, 10:40 pm
#1079
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
You might not like my opinion, and I'm perfectly ok with that. Is there an FT guideline that we comment only upon matters that we have personally encountered?
As for Calgary, I thought a handful of international destinations were served nonstop by carriers other than Air Canada that offer a premium cabin. Guess I was mistaken.
Feb 19, 2019, 12:33 am
#1080
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC 50k 1MM, Marriott LT Titanium Elite
Posts: 3,402
Dissension is not frustration. If some folks think a thread on FlyerTalk or a Google sheet is going to shame or otherwise convince Air Canada to remedy the seat issue with any more urgency than they're already displaying, then carry on. My position is that there are faster and more effective ways to get the message heard. skybluesea's ASC suggestion has some merit for example.
You might not like my opinion, and I'm perfectly ok with that. Is there an FT guideline that we comment only upon matters that we have personally encountered?
As for Calgary, I thought a handful of international destinations were served nonstop by carriers other than Air Canada that offer a premium cabin. Guess I was mistaken.
You might not like my opinion, and I'm perfectly ok with that. Is there an FT guideline that we comment only upon matters that we have personally encountered?
As for Calgary, I thought a handful of international destinations were served nonstop by carriers other than Air Canada that offer a premium cabin. Guess I was mistaken.
Your contention was that YYC was served by a handful of TPAC and TATL options for carriers. For TPAC there is one AC flight to NRT. That’s it. For TATL there is AC to LHR and FRA and KLM to AMS. Seasonal to ZRH. And.... So yes, you are mistaken.
As as for the rest of it I don’t have a care for your opinion at all. Express away. Knock yourself out. But if you think the thread has been beaten to death for you then take a break. If you are still busy expressing opinions then hello consistency police. But since you don’t seem to be impacted by the issue personally at all why do you keep on wasting a words that are beaten to death? Spare the rest of us the sanctimony.