May 5, 2014, 8:21 pm
Last edit by: Arcanum
Flights operated by Air Canada rouge
NOTE: Rouge Wifi information can be found here
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...l#post28448087
Dates in brackets indicate planned start of rouge service (either as a new route or replacing mainline service). ML placed before a date indicates the date that service is reverting to mainline.
All Airbus A319/A321 service is in the new Premium Rouge configuration with 2x2J seats. All other routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft in a 24J/258Y layout.
Airport codes in blue indicate that these routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft for all services.
Airport codes in red indicate that these routes are split between Boeing 767-300ER and Airbus services.
Airport codes in black indicate that these routes are Airbus aircraft for all services.
Routes are organized based on the established rouge bases of YYZ, YUL, YYC, and YVR
*Seasonal Summer Service
YYZ
Canada
YQT YQY YXX YLW YYG (02MAY-OCT) YDF YQB YQM (01MAY19) YFC (01JUL19)
USA
MCO TPA LAS FLL HNL SRQ RSW SAN PHX MIA PSP (14DEC16)
Mexico
CUN PVR SJD
Caribbean
KIN NAS LIR GND MBJ AZS CCC CUR HUX PUJ POP SKB SJO SXM LRM HOG SNU UVF VRA BGI (07JAN) POS (21DEC16)
Europe
ATH BCN EDI VCE MAN LIS PRG BUD GLA LGW
Central and South America
LIM BOG PTY
YUL
USA
LAS MCO FLL PBI TPA MIA
Mexico
CUN MEX PVR (18NOV16)
Caribbean
ZSA CCC HOG PUJ SNU PLS POP PAP NAS (17JAN) PTP
Europe
FCO ATH BCN NCE VCE
Central and South America
SJO (22DEC16)
Africa
CMN
YYC
Canada
YHZ* YHM (2016)
USA
LAS PHX (winter only - PHX AC Express in summer)
YVR
USA
LAS HNL OGG PHX PSP KOA SAN (02JUN)
Mexico
CUN PVR
Asia
KIX
Europe
DUB LGA KEF
What to Do If Your Flight Has Been Rouged According to the AC Rep "Air Canada Altitude": call AC Reservations, cancel and get a refund.
Air Canada rouge, a leisure airline
Sep 28, 2014, 8:54 am
#3796
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
Not withstanding the words of the pilot (who might or might not have access to real information) I do not think the rouging domestic flights is in the cards.
Where AC differentiates itself from WS, PD et. al. is by offering a true J cabin, lounges, and connections to a global network. Many domestic business travellers demand these services, as well as business travellers from other countries flying into Canada.
rouge will work on markets without this customer base, but for AC to keep this large group of higher margin travellers (if you can call anything in the airline industry 'high margin') they need to keep offering mainline services.
Where AC differentiates itself from WS, PD et. al. is by offering a true J cabin, lounges, and connections to a global network. Many domestic business travellers demand these services, as well as business travellers from other countries flying into Canada.
rouge will work on markets without this customer base, but for AC to keep this large group of higher margin travellers (if you can call anything in the airline industry 'high margin') they need to keep offering mainline services.
Sep 29, 2014, 2:13 pm
#3797
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Programs: United MileagePlus Silver, Nexus, Global Entry
Posts: 8,798
When I started travelling for business 20 years ago, it seemed like paid J for business travel was not that uncommon amongst my peers.
Today, I don't know anyone personally who travels for work who gets to fly paid J (obviously these people exist - I read their posts here - But I've never met anyone).
Would also be interesting to see how the numbers compare inside and outside of the triangle.
All you need to do is interline bags and you have 'connections to a global network.' 17 years into the Star Alliance, and even simple things like seat assignments and check-in seem to be nearly impossible. Sure, United and Avianca will let me into their lounge, but I'd hardly call that 'connections to a global network.'
Sep 29, 2014, 2:32 pm
#3798
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC SE*MM, Bonvoy LT Plat, HH Gold, National EE, Sixt Plat, Hz 5*
Posts: 2,441
I've flown paid J a handful of times. Usually only when it's a good deal, the only deal, or close (10-20%) to the price of a bad Y deal. I also buy LMUs if the deal is good, so far only on UA.
I've billed it to my clients but we never have to specify class of service. Almost all of the travel I bill to the clients has to be pre-approved with a PO cut in advance, so I'm sure if they felt what we were billing was out of line, they would not approve it. These are relatively large corporations with total revenues somewhere between 1B and 100B a year.
That being said, I know the clients themselves get to fly paid J on international long haul. It's a corporate travel policy, so it could be an 80k a year mid level manager, or a high level exec enjoying that benefit.
I've billed it to my clients but we never have to specify class of service. Almost all of the travel I bill to the clients has to be pre-approved with a PO cut in advance, so I'm sure if they felt what we were billing was out of line, they would not approve it. These are relatively large corporations with total revenues somewhere between 1B and 100B a year.
That being said, I know the clients themselves get to fly paid J on international long haul. It's a corporate travel policy, so it could be an 80k a year mid level manager, or a high level exec enjoying that benefit.
Sep 29, 2014, 2:39 pm
#3799
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,536
Be interesting to see where the numbers are trending with respect to paid J - Up, down, stable...?
When I started travelling for business 20 years ago, it seemed like paid J for business travel was not that uncommon amongst my peers.
Today, I don't know anyone personally who travels for work who gets to fly paid J (obviously these people exist - I read their posts here - But I've never met anyone).
Would also be interesting to see how the numbers compare inside and outside of the triangle.
All you need to do is interline bags and you have 'connections to a global network.' 17 years into the Star Alliance, and even simple things like seat assignments and check-in seem to be nearly impossible. Sure, United and Avianca will let me into their lounge, but I'd hardly call that 'connections to a global network.'
When I started travelling for business 20 years ago, it seemed like paid J for business travel was not that uncommon amongst my peers.
Today, I don't know anyone personally who travels for work who gets to fly paid J (obviously these people exist - I read their posts here - But I've never met anyone).
Would also be interesting to see how the numbers compare inside and outside of the triangle.
All you need to do is interline bags and you have 'connections to a global network.' 17 years into the Star Alliance, and even simple things like seat assignments and check-in seem to be nearly impossible. Sure, United and Avianca will let me into their lounge, but I'd hardly call that 'connections to a global network.'
There are, of course, alternatives to the 'Classic' airline model, but I am guessing that there is still a large portion of travellers, mostly business travellers, who like/need/want that model. If not, this forum wouldn't exist, people would be leaving FFPs (although they might be, but not in significant numbers...yet), etc.
I personally enjoy the benefits offered by *G when travelling airlines arose the world. Especially when IRROPS pop up, or you need a last minute change and a smile isn't quite enough.
Since you ate E50k *G, I assume you do too, at least a bit.
My point, on a more macro level, is that although AC has has success with Rouge on many routes, I don't believe they would have the same success on most DOM/TATL/TPAC/SA/TB where business travellers outnumber the others, at least on a monetary level.
On a side note, I find it funny hearing, almost simultaneously, cries of Rouge will not last and AC will Rouge the entire fleet. I didn't know Chicken Little flew AC...
Sep 29, 2014, 5:49 pm
#3800
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 4,604
I've only flown premium rouge so far, but has AC started charging for IFE on the Y cabin yet? This was part of the plan, but I wonder if they'd backed off due to the rouge backlash. Charging for IFE, despite having to provide your own iPad is one more differentiation from mainline.
Sep 29, 2014, 7:09 pm
#3801
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
I've only flown premium rouge so far, but has AC started charging for IFE on the Y cabin yet? This was part of the plan, but I wonder if they'd backed off due to the rouge backlash. Charging for IFE, despite having to provide your own iPad is one more differentiation from mainline.
Oct 4, 2014, 4:43 pm
#3802
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PHX
Programs: AAexp, AC75k, HertzPC, NationalEE, Accor/MariottP, Hilton/HyattG
Posts: 3,614
About to fly the a319 rogue for the first time, I'm in 4c and parents are in premium row 2 . 767 was brutal so I'm hoping this isn't as bad...
Yyc-lax
Yyc-lax
Oct 4, 2014, 6:35 pm
#3803
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 186
Be interesting to see where the numbers are trending with respect to paid J - Up, down, stable...?
When I started travelling for business 20 years ago, it seemed like paid J for business travel was not that uncommon amongst my peers.
Today, I don't know anyone personally who travels for work who gets to fly paid J (obviously these people exist - I read their posts here - But I've never met anyone).
Would also be interesting to see how the numbers compare inside and outside of the triangle.
All you need to do is interline bags and you have 'connections to a global network.' 17 years into the Star Alliance, and even simple things like seat assignments and check-in seem to be nearly impossible. Sure, United and Avianca will let me into their lounge, but I'd hardly call that 'connections to a global network.'
When I started travelling for business 20 years ago, it seemed like paid J for business travel was not that uncommon amongst my peers.
Today, I don't know anyone personally who travels for work who gets to fly paid J (obviously these people exist - I read their posts here - But I've never met anyone).
Would also be interesting to see how the numbers compare inside and outside of the triangle.
All you need to do is interline bags and you have 'connections to a global network.' 17 years into the Star Alliance, and even simple things like seat assignments and check-in seem to be nearly impossible. Sure, United and Avianca will let me into their lounge, but I'd hardly call that 'connections to a global network.'
I am in engineering, the older guys complain now that they don't get paid J, while they used to get it places like LAX and LAS from yyz. I've never gotten paid J since I have been here, (I'm 31).
My wife, in the oil industry based in Toronto, gets paid J for anything over 10 hours duration, or if she flies a certain amount a month. She spends a week a month in dubai, and flies back and forth in paid J. She's not even a Sr. employee or anything. She actually flies on Etihad, and gets driven the final hour since they gave her company a really good rate.
My dad was a higher up at a certain crown corp through the 90's, paid J everywhere including YUL-YYZ which he did every other week it seemed.
Oct 4, 2014, 7:16 pm
#3804
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
It has to be shrinking, higher up executives and people in certain industries.
I am in engineering, the older guys complain now that they don't get paid J, while they used to get it places like LAX and LAS from yyz. I've never gotten paid J since I have been here, (I'm 31).
My wife, in the oil industry based in Toronto, gets paid J for anything over 10 hours duration, or if she flies a certain amount a month. She spends a week a month in dubai, and flies back and forth in paid J. She's not even a Sr. employee or anything. She actually flies on Etihad, and gets driven the final hour since they gave her company a really good rate.
My dad was a higher up at a certain crown corp through the 90's, paid J everywhere including YUL-YYZ which he did every other week it seemed.
I am in engineering, the older guys complain now that they don't get paid J, while they used to get it places like LAX and LAS from yyz. I've never gotten paid J since I have been here, (I'm 31).
My wife, in the oil industry based in Toronto, gets paid J for anything over 10 hours duration, or if she flies a certain amount a month. She spends a week a month in dubai, and flies back and forth in paid J. She's not even a Sr. employee or anything. She actually flies on Etihad, and gets driven the final hour since they gave her company a really good rate.
My dad was a higher up at a certain crown corp through the 90's, paid J everywhere including YUL-YYZ which he did every other week it seemed.
Oct 4, 2014, 10:46 pm
#3805
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: YOW
Programs: AC E75; A3 *G; SPG PLAT; NEXUS
Posts: 116
I work for a multi billion dollar telecom company based in Scandinavia - and our policy is that everyone from the CEO on down flys economy. Upgrades are on your own points or co-pay. So yes - I also wonder who exactly is flying paid J these days ! (Maybe government employees flying on our tax dollars ??).
Oct 4, 2014, 10:49 pm
#3806
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: YOW
Programs: AC E75; A3 *G; SPG PLAT; NEXUS
Posts: 116
Oh - and I don't just mean YYZ-YUL flights. YYZ-PEK or YYZ-PVG are also cattle class. All 13.5 hours of it. (Yuck)
Oct 5, 2014, 12:28 am
#3807
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PHX
Programs: AAexp, AC75k, HertzPC, NationalEE, Accor/MariottP, Hilton/HyattG
Posts: 3,614
Just flew the 319 row 4. Comparable to mainline. Good flight i had empty middle. Rogue plus is like Euro biz.
Oct 5, 2014, 1:04 am
#3808
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,161
As far as I understand it, I need to pay the change fee regardless. There is no *G benefit for last minute changes. Unless there is something I don't know, so please educate me.
On a side note, I find it funny hearing, almost simultaneously, cries of Rouge will not last and AC will Rouge the entire fleet. I didn't know Chicken Little flew AC...