Mini RTW Questions
Jul 13, 2012, 6:57 pm
#316
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NOC/LAX
Posts: 432
I don't think that's it otherwise I wouldn't be able to go LAX-ICN-NRT. Also, I've seen many examples of booked mini-rtw's that had some kind of backtracking.
Can one of you experts out there help me?
Can one of you experts out there help me?
Jul 18, 2012, 12:23 pm
#317
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NOC/LAX
Posts: 432
Still waiting for an answer to my question for anyone who's willing to help.
I called Aeroplan 4 times in the last couple days and got two agents who said my route was valid and two who said it wasn't. I know one of the mini-rtw experts here knows the correct answer...
I called Aeroplan 4 times in the last couple days and got two agents who said my route was valid and two who said it wasn't. I know one of the mini-rtw experts here knows the correct answer...
Can someone please help me understand MPM?
I know that LAX-BKK MPM + 5% is 10,402 via the Pacific, and 14,925 via the Atlantic. Since my outbound will be TPAC and my inbound TATL, I'm not sure which applies to me. I know there's no problem with my outbound:
LAX-ICN-NRT
NRT-BKK
But the agent told me my inbound wasn't valid:
BKK-HKG-SIN-FRA
FRA-LAX
According to great circle mappers, the mileage on that is 14,833 so if they're using the 14,925 number it should be valid. Just barely, but still.
When I brought up these numbers the agent said that in 10 years she had ever heard of such a thing and neither had her supervisor. Then she chastised me saying that it was inappropriate for me to be bringing up the numbers in the first place.
If someone could tell me if my route is valid or not and give the explanation for it, I'd really appreciate it.
I know that LAX-BKK MPM + 5% is 10,402 via the Pacific, and 14,925 via the Atlantic. Since my outbound will be TPAC and my inbound TATL, I'm not sure which applies to me. I know there's no problem with my outbound:
LAX-ICN-NRT
NRT-BKK
But the agent told me my inbound wasn't valid:
BKK-HKG-SIN-FRA
FRA-LAX
According to great circle mappers, the mileage on that is 14,833 so if they're using the 14,925 number it should be valid. Just barely, but still.
When I brought up these numbers the agent said that in 10 years she had ever heard of such a thing and neither had her supervisor. Then she chastised me saying that it was inappropriate for me to be bringing up the numbers in the first place.
If someone could tell me if my route is valid or not and give the explanation for it, I'd really appreciate it.
Jul 18, 2012, 4:58 pm
#318
Join Date: Oct 2008
Programs: aeroplan,aaadvantage
Posts: 472
Some mini rtw rules
Maximum segments 10
You r allowed 2 stopovers and your turnaround destination.
Eg.
Yyz-ICN stop
ICN- SIN
Then
Sin- FRA stop
FRA-YYZ
Or you can stop Twice on your way
Yyz-ICN stop
ICN-bkk stop
Bkk-sin
But return cannot have a stop
If you do an open jaw
YyZ-ICN stop
ICN-sin
Bkk-fra-yyz. You are only allowed one stopover
There are also mileage limits but I am not sure exactly what they are
Hope this helps
You r allowed 2 stopovers and your turnaround destination.
Eg.
Yyz-ICN stop
ICN- SIN
Then
Sin- FRA stop
FRA-YYZ
Or you can stop Twice on your way
Yyz-ICN stop
ICN-bkk stop
Bkk-sin
But return cannot have a stop
If you do an open jaw
YyZ-ICN stop
ICN-sin
Bkk-fra-yyz. You are only allowed one stopover
There are also mileage limits but I am not sure exactly what they are
Hope this helps
Jul 18, 2012, 5:25 pm
#319
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NOC/LAX
Posts: 432
Thanks for the reply but I only have two stops (NRT & FRA) and a POT (BKK).
This is not true. You can have two stops on the way to your POT, two stops after your POT, or your POT can be between two other stops.
I already know this is valid:
LAX-ICN-NRT (stop)
NRT-BKK (POT)
BKK-FRA (stop)
FRA-LAX
My question is if this is valid:
LAX-ICN-NRT (stop)
NRT-BKK (POT)
BKK-HKG-SIN-FRA (stop)
FRA-LAX
And if not, why not.
This is not true. You can have two stops on the way to your POT, two stops after your POT, or your POT can be between two other stops.
I already know this is valid:
LAX-ICN-NRT (stop)
NRT-BKK (POT)
BKK-FRA (stop)
FRA-LAX
My question is if this is valid:
LAX-ICN-NRT (stop)
NRT-BKK (POT)
BKK-HKG-SIN-FRA (stop)
FRA-LAX
And if not, why not.
Jul 19, 2012, 12:21 am
#320
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 21
Backtracking in different directions.
BKK-HKG-LAX or BKK-SIN-FRA-LAX.
BKK-HKG-LAX or BKK-SIN-FRA-LAX.
Jul 19, 2012, 1:40 am
#321
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: YFC
Programs: AC*SE100K; Marriott Titanium; NEXUS
Posts: 1,523
Thanks for the reply but I only have two stops (NRT & FRA) and a POT (BKK).
This is not true. You can have two stops on the way to your POT, two stops after your POT, or your POT can be between two other stops.
I already know this is valid:
LAX-ICN-NRT (stop)
NRT-BKK (POT)
BKK-FRA (stop)
FRA-LAX
My question is if this is valid:
LAX-ICN-NRT (stop)
NRT-BKK (POT)
BKK-HKG-SIN-FRA (stop)
FRA-LAX
And if not, why not.
This is not true. You can have two stops on the way to your POT, two stops after your POT, or your POT can be between two other stops.
I already know this is valid:
LAX-ICN-NRT (stop)
NRT-BKK (POT)
BKK-FRA (stop)
FRA-LAX
My question is if this is valid:
LAX-ICN-NRT (stop)
NRT-BKK (POT)
BKK-HKG-SIN-FRA (stop)
FRA-LAX
And if not, why not.
Jul 20, 2012, 7:36 am
#322
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: SPG, AA, BA, CO, UA, US, B6, DL, Amex MR, HH
Posts: 1,009
MPM is applied to each direction separately. So, you'd use the PA MPM for your outbound, and the AT MPM for the inbound.
Your inbound trip (BKK-HKG-SIN-FRA-LAX) should be a valid routing under MPM (which is 14215) since the TPM is 14824, which is less than MPM+5% (14926). I suspect the agents that are allowing that routing are going by the MPM only. The agents that aren't are looking at the routing and seeing that it backtracks up into HKG, and declining it on that basis.
As to whether or not backtracking is allowed is something that seems to be variable, based on the agent you talk to.
But your routing should be good under MPM.
Your inbound trip (BKK-HKG-SIN-FRA-LAX) should be a valid routing under MPM (which is 14215) since the TPM is 14824, which is less than MPM+5% (14926). I suspect the agents that are allowing that routing are going by the MPM only. The agents that aren't are looking at the routing and seeing that it backtracks up into HKG, and declining it on that basis.
As to whether or not backtracking is allowed is something that seems to be variable, based on the agent you talk to.
But your routing should be good under MPM.
Jul 20, 2012, 8:19 am
#323
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: AC*G
Posts: 23
I am wondering if this would be a valid mini RTW itinerary:
MUC - BEJ or HKG (stop) - SYD or AKL (destination) - HNL (stop) - MUC
My original plan is to fly this route:
MUC-BEJ-HKG-SYD-AKL-HNL-SFO (or LAX or YVR)-MUC
but maybe it would be cheaper to use some AC miles on the mini RTW above and pay with cash for the remaining flights, even if that would mean excess travel (e.g. BEJ<->HKG and SYD<->AKL) and I would need to cut the mainland US/Canada stopover on the way back.
Can anyone of the resident experts tell me if that makes sense? The Aeroplan online tool only seems to allow two stopovers (or one stopover, one OJ).
MUC - BEJ or HKG (stop) - SYD or AKL (destination) - HNL (stop) - MUC
My original plan is to fly this route:
MUC-BEJ-HKG-SYD-AKL-HNL-SFO (or LAX or YVR)-MUC
but maybe it would be cheaper to use some AC miles on the mini RTW above and pay with cash for the remaining flights, even if that would mean excess travel (e.g. BEJ<->HKG and SYD<->AKL) and I would need to cut the mainland US/Canada stopover on the way back.
Can anyone of the resident experts tell me if that makes sense? The Aeroplan online tool only seems to allow two stopovers (or one stopover, one OJ).
Jul 28, 2012, 12:46 am
#324
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 23
YYC-HKT mini-RTW Routing help needed.
Dear FT'ers,
I currently have the following award ticket booked:
YYC-LAX-ICN-HKG-(stop)-HKT-HKG-(stop)-SFO-YYC
The outbound Tpac segment is on OZ in F but the return is in dreaded UA F.
In order to avoid "wasting" 175K on UA F I am thinking of turning this into a mini-RTW.
Would anyone be able to tell me if the follwoing routing would work or am I running up against the MPM limit in addition to potential backtracking problems with the CDG-ZRH segement (BKK-FRA is not available on the dates I need to travel)?
YYC-LAX-ICN-HKG-(stop)-HKT-BKK-CDG-ZRH-YUL-(stop)-YYC
Assuming the routing is valid, in terms of fees, would I be better to end in YUL making it an open jaw and use a flight pass credit worth about 450$ to get from YUL to YYC (that would be my only segment on AC metal....).
Thanks for your advice!
I currently have the following award ticket booked:
YYC-LAX-ICN-HKG-(stop)-HKT-HKG-(stop)-SFO-YYC
The outbound Tpac segment is on OZ in F but the return is in dreaded UA F.
In order to avoid "wasting" 175K on UA F I am thinking of turning this into a mini-RTW.
Would anyone be able to tell me if the follwoing routing would work or am I running up against the MPM limit in addition to potential backtracking problems with the CDG-ZRH segement (BKK-FRA is not available on the dates I need to travel)?
YYC-LAX-ICN-HKG-(stop)-HKT-BKK-CDG-ZRH-YUL-(stop)-YYC
Assuming the routing is valid, in terms of fees, would I be better to end in YUL making it an open jaw and use a flight pass credit worth about 450$ to get from YUL to YYC (that would be my only segment on AC metal....).
Thanks for your advice!
Jul 28, 2012, 3:29 pm
#325
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 1,013
Welcome to FT fellow Albertan and mini-RTW'er!
It's valid but good luck getting F in LX for your ZRH-YUL leg! LH and LX F now only open up at the last minute. LH sounds like 2 weeks out with LX even closer. You could book J and gamble. Crappy thing is, if your trip is longer than a couple of weeks you have to manage your return upgrade while on vacay.
UA F isn't that bad if you don't fly F a lot. Too bad you didn't do this a couple of weeks ago as you could have gotten into SQ F. We totally lucked out and the SQ 777 even got upgraded to an A380 with suites.
I'd guess your fees will go up too with the itinerary modifications along with the $90 per person change fee.
Have a great trip! We go to a little place a few hours south of HKT every year and absolutely love it there. Except when the missus gets Dengue hemorrhagic fever...
It's valid but good luck getting F in LX for your ZRH-YUL leg! LH and LX F now only open up at the last minute. LH sounds like 2 weeks out with LX even closer. You could book J and gamble. Crappy thing is, if your trip is longer than a couple of weeks you have to manage your return upgrade while on vacay.
UA F isn't that bad if you don't fly F a lot. Too bad you didn't do this a couple of weeks ago as you could have gotten into SQ F. We totally lucked out and the SQ 777 even got upgraded to an A380 with suites.
I'd guess your fees will go up too with the itinerary modifications along with the $90 per person change fee.
Have a great trip! We go to a little place a few hours south of HKT every year and absolutely love it there. Except when the missus gets Dengue hemorrhagic fever...
Jul 28, 2012, 10:48 pm
#326
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP,AS MVPG,MR Platinum,HH Gold
Posts: 1,343
LX F is no longer released to partners. At all. Just try and book anything over the next 355 days. Unfortunately the only transatlantic First worth taking is Lufthansa, and they open for partner awards on the following schedule:
(1) Flights from MUC/DUS open 14 days prior to departure.
(2) Flights from FRA open 7 days prior to departure.
(3) Flights on an A380 open 48 hours prior to departure.
I would keep monitoring all your options, and if nothing opens up, make a play for a last minute change to LH F. Try something like HKT-(TG)-BKK-FRA-YYZ/ORD-YYC.
(1) Flights from MUC/DUS open 14 days prior to departure.
(2) Flights from FRA open 7 days prior to departure.
(3) Flights on an A380 open 48 hours prior to departure.
I would keep monitoring all your options, and if nothing opens up, make a play for a last minute change to LH F. Try something like HKT-(TG)-BKK-FRA-YYZ/ORD-YYC.
Jul 29, 2012, 5:28 am
#327
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: YUL
Posts: 2,115
8/3 LH710 FRA NRT A380
8/4 LH710 FRA NRT A380
9/7 LH710 FRA NRT A380
8/7 LH711 NRT FRA A380
8/8 LH711 NRT FRA A380
8/10 LH711 NRT FRA A380
9/3 LH711 NRT FRA A380
That being said, despite LX dropping out (which is a shame, as it's really a great experience), if you're able to plan something relatively short notice, I think you can still find decent choices including LH, TG, OZ....
Jul 29, 2012, 10:08 am
#328
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 1,013
Originally Posted by arcticbull
LX F is no longer released to partners. At all. Just try and book anything over the next 355 days. Unfortunately the only transatlantic First worth taking is Lufthansa
P.S. YYCleisureTraveller, read this and see if you can do it also!! EDIT: Nevermind I think that person is a KrisFlyer member.
Last edited by RoninTech; Jul 29, 2012 at 11:22 am
Jul 29, 2012, 10:13 am
#329
formerly known as DeltaNYC
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: YYZ, mostly...
Programs: AC SE100K / BA Bronze / Marriott Ambassador (LT Plat) / Hilton Diamond / IHG Plat
Posts: 1,704
Interesting.... but I don't think this is correct. For example, right now (7/29) I can see various dates in August and even September available as a First reward on aeroplan.com:
8/3 LH710 FRA NRT A380
8/4 LH710 FRA NRT A380
9/7 LH710 FRA NRT A380
8/7 LH711 NRT FRA A380
8/8 LH711 NRT FRA A380
8/10 LH711 NRT FRA A380
9/3 LH711 NRT FRA A380
That being said, despite LX dropping out (which is a shame, as it's really a great experience), if you're able to plan something relatively short notice, I think you can still find decent choices including LH, TG, OZ....
8/3 LH710 FRA NRT A380
8/4 LH710 FRA NRT A380
9/7 LH710 FRA NRT A380
8/7 LH711 NRT FRA A380
8/8 LH711 NRT FRA A380
8/10 LH711 NRT FRA A380
9/3 LH711 NRT FRA A380
That being said, despite LX dropping out (which is a shame, as it's really a great experience), if you're able to plan something relatively short notice, I think you can still find decent choices including LH, TG, OZ....
Jul 29, 2012, 10:45 am
#330
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: YUL
Posts: 2,115
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