Yreal

most cc don't chargeback over vouchers. Same reason as airlines not refunding in the first place.

asnovici

Mine did with Brussels and KLM when they insisted on vouchers. Issue is that they don’t even admit the flights are cancelled so not even an offer of a voucher.

headingwest

Did I ever write that I wanted a refund?? Actually, I have requested vouchers, because it's financially advantageous to do so. That doesn't excuse Aegean from their disgusting unscrupulous behaviour by breaking EU law.

When I book a flight, I should have confidence that in unforeseen circumstances the terms and conditions (and laws) that apply to the booking (CONTRACT) are adhered to. Those are there to protect me just as much as the airline, so it's totally unacceptable for the airline to then turn around and say they will not follow the law. That leaves me with zero confidence. The fact that Aegean needs money, frankly is not my concern. If they want to keep people's money (at point of cancellation it's no longer their money), they should do something to encourage passengers to leave the money in their coffers. Other airlines are offering financial incentives - such as a cash bonus, or % discounts - they are not just point blank refusing to offer refunds - WHICH IS BREAKING THE LAW.

I had bookings with Lufthansa, Austrian and Virgin Atlantic, and although they all tried to wriggle out of their obligations (with the voucher c**p), they have all agreed to process a refund. The law is the law. Aegean's behaviour will leave a bitter taste in many people's mouths.

Xandrios

Unfortunately not my experience as a lowly gold. Requested the voucher early April, no communication whatsoever. When I asked about it on Facebook I was basically told 'we' re busy, don't bother us, just wait'. Maybe I will call them now that the call enters should be better reachable.

Yreal

yes, and under exeptional circumstances contract law becomes a lot more fluid. You have you right, and if they other party won't give it to you, you have to sue them.

which you won't. So stop "hur hur breaking the law".

headingwest

Just stating a fact. And there is nothing 'fluid' about it at all. The EU have reminded the airlines of their legal obligations several times.

Yreal

yes. And they won't do it, for in my opinion at least, good reasons.

so... you have to sue them. And win. But 99.99% of the people won't do that.

Knobbgb

But is a law enforceable if it is backdated in such a way? The specific Greek law was passed on 13th April but came into effect for bookings cancelled from 25th February. I really don't see how it could stand up in the European courts if it ever came to that, which it almost certainly never will, unfortunately.

I actually just found the official Greek government text on this from the parliament website.

https://www.hellenicparliament.gr/en...pe=0_0_0_0_0_0

Good luck actually navigating that site, but if you Google A'84/13.04.20 you'll find plenty of English interpretations.

And here's the actual text in Greek:

https://news.gtp.gr/wp-content/uploa...-13-04-20-.pdf


On a positive note, I also found out something I didn't know. The credit vouchers are actually backed by the government, which at least allays the fear that they would become worthless if Aegean doesn't survive.

8. Credit notes issued under the provisions of this Act of Legislative Content from tourism companies offering packages under the Presidential Decree 7/2018 (A’ 12) are protected against the tourism company’s insolvency, as specified in art. 16 of the Presidential Decree 7/2018.

johnirvine

'Disgusting unscrupulous behaviour' is a strong term but it is correct. Aegean are also deliberately lying. In my case, they promised to make refunds for two separate tickets. Now they have said that 'technical problems' prevent them making a refund to the credit card I used for the transaction. 'Technical problems' also apparently prevent them making a refund to the alternative bank account that I gave details of to them. I have now replied to them to be honest and admit that these 'technical problems' are that they have no money in their account. Being bust is no excuse for deliberately lying.

East_and_West

Well, the Greek governement has effectively gone bakrupt three times in the past decade, so I wouldn't take their guarantee at face value, but rather as an attempt to sweeten the pill. But even if it doesn't get to that (and based on the current outlook, it seems that most likely it won't), consider that $*** is just about to hit the fan all arounf Europe right now. And when it does, I can't see how EU governements would spend any cash on paying back airline voucher holders, amid a rising trend in unemployment, job destruction, business closures and their healthcare systems in dire need of funding...

East_and_West

Bloomberg reports today (bolding mine):

nini_su

Found an English version here, hope it's accurate: https://contessinacollection.com/cov...lation-policy/

In any case, whether backdated or not, this law contradicts EC261/2004, which leaves no room for member states to add any additional provisions to the right to reimbursement. Any (local) court tasked with settling a dispute on this matter (e.g. between you and an airline refusing to reimburse you) would have to follow EC261, since it overrules any contradicting national provisions, and could only take non-contradicting parts of the national law into consideration.

(Theoretically, the national courts (which one specifically depends on the member state's justice system) could defer the question to the Court of Justice of the European Union, which would probably invalidate these provisions, because they weaken the higher-ranking EU law. Similarly, the Commission could start an infringement procedure against Greece and thereby force Greece to repeal the provisions. Both of which isn't necessary though, because already in the local court EU law will take precedent.)

Of course, no matter the legality of the provisions, it gives airlines enough cover to try and force you to take a voucher. It would be interesting to see how the National Enforcement Bodies (such as Hellenic Civil Aviation Authority - Passenger Rights) interpret the situation and whether airlines actually were to accept any arbitration leading to a cash reimbursement. If so, there's a rather easy (albeit not quick) way to get your money back without having to involve a court. Besides chargebacks of course, but their usefulness has already been discussed at length, it seems.

All that being said, this law looks very similar to the Commission's guidelines released today, just that the Commission knows that this can only be offered as an additional choice to passengers, not as a replacement to the existing right to reimbursement:

Source: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...l/en/ip_20_854

powergean

I dont unerstand, if somebody alredy chosen the voucher, can change his mine, and ask for money refund?

nini_su

No, once you've accepted a voucher, you voluntarily waived your right to reimbursement (though, maybe you could try to argue that you were tricked into taking the voucher, but once again, that's matter for the courts and not a straightforward case).

But: if your flight was canceled for any reason (incl. Covid-19), you have the right to be reimbursed in cash – not by voucher – within 7 days, because the relevant EU legislation (EC261/2004) is valid and takes precedent over national law for as long as it exists in this form (and once again, the Commission cannot and will not change this). If the airline does not comply, you can turn to the National Enforcement Body for arbitration and/or go to court. Of course, if you're not prepared to do so, you're gonna have to play by the rules of the airline, whether they are following the law or not.

powergean

Thanks! But in thes case, i am sure, then 90% of the people alredy got the voucher, after the greek government said, that no cash refund, only voucher. I dont belive, that many people going to the court.....So the airline is still the winner.