New Earning Table (esp Partner Airlines)
Apr 6, 2014, 8:43 pm
#181
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SYD
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 1,799
I think LTN Phobia sums it up well.
I see several aims for QF:
- reduce elite population to those that "earn it" in QF's eyes. This one is debatable to me in terms of benefit to QF. I would submit minor(in the scheme of things) cost savings in terms of say less Golds or Plats using lounges, and that kind of thing. Though extending it, QF elite using partner lounges will cost QF a bit too (eg: I will be visiting The Wing at HKG in a few weeks flying AY to HEL - that will cost QF for me to enter as a WP).. so again some potential cost savings there in terms of chargebacks to QF. Would it offset revenue to QF? I doubt it really. Probably the core of business folks who attain SG/WP and above won't really move their business. Some will, of course, but I daresay the majority won't - either through company travel policy or schedule or whatever in which case you would assume travel patterns will be less likely driven by an airline's policy change like this but more by theit own - eg: changes in travel requirements more/less, change in corporate travel policies, or whatever.
- Reduce liability of QF points holdings. This is an interesting one. The less points you give out, while retaining the award levels MUST lead to a reduction in the overall level of liability on the books for QF n the medium term. Now sure, many people derive points from non flying sources, like QF Cash, Credi Cards etc, but this is where QF Loyalty makes significant money so it's still a financial positive overall for QF.
Further it seems if the "lower value" (I don't know what other phrase to use) customers decide to move away from QF, it's likely what points holdings they have will either be used to buy items like vouchers for woolies and so on - at a net positive for QF given assigned points values, or they will expire - which again is good for the bottom line for QF.
I also agree that this is a big gamble for QF Loyalty in some respects - if there's a fair exodus over the next year or two, the program's value will obviously diminish to the airline and thus have a big effect on the company's net value, revenues and so on. I think QF have done the sums and believe that overall little will change from a demand point of view, but be net positive on the financial end.
Time will tell.
btw I'm not writing this to be a QF apologist or anything like that. I'm just trying to see things from the other side of things though I have no hard data or insight.. just speculation.
I see several aims for QF:
- reduce elite population to those that "earn it" in QF's eyes. This one is debatable to me in terms of benefit to QF. I would submit minor(in the scheme of things) cost savings in terms of say less Golds or Plats using lounges, and that kind of thing. Though extending it, QF elite using partner lounges will cost QF a bit too (eg: I will be visiting The Wing at HKG in a few weeks flying AY to HEL - that will cost QF for me to enter as a WP).. so again some potential cost savings there in terms of chargebacks to QF. Would it offset revenue to QF? I doubt it really. Probably the core of business folks who attain SG/WP and above won't really move their business. Some will, of course, but I daresay the majority won't - either through company travel policy or schedule or whatever in which case you would assume travel patterns will be less likely driven by an airline's policy change like this but more by theit own - eg: changes in travel requirements more/less, change in corporate travel policies, or whatever.
- Reduce liability of QF points holdings. This is an interesting one. The less points you give out, while retaining the award levels MUST lead to a reduction in the overall level of liability on the books for QF n the medium term. Now sure, many people derive points from non flying sources, like QF Cash, Credi Cards etc, but this is where QF Loyalty makes significant money so it's still a financial positive overall for QF.
Further it seems if the "lower value" (I don't know what other phrase to use) customers decide to move away from QF, it's likely what points holdings they have will either be used to buy items like vouchers for woolies and so on - at a net positive for QF given assigned points values, or they will expire - which again is good for the bottom line for QF.
I also agree that this is a big gamble for QF Loyalty in some respects - if there's a fair exodus over the next year or two, the program's value will obviously diminish to the airline and thus have a big effect on the company's net value, revenues and so on. I think QF have done the sums and believe that overall little will change from a demand point of view, but be net positive on the financial end.
Time will tell.
btw I'm not writing this to be a QF apologist or anything like that. I'm just trying to see things from the other side of things though I have no hard data or insight.. just speculation.
And if they wanted to reduce financial liabilities from points, they would've just revalued the redemptions instead to give an instant boost to the balance sheet. The method they have taken would only give small incremental benefits.
And it has been reported that it is still possible to do low-priced runs in the LOTFAP and (to a certain degree) in Asia, so these "low-valued" SGs and WPs will still hang around.
Now that the dust is starting to settle, it is getting harder to see what the actual benefits are for QF (if any at all).
Apr 6, 2014, 8:53 pm
#182
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SYD
Programs: QF WP/LTG | UA P
Posts: 13,530
The immediate benefit is to get more people onto the QF services eg SYD - HKG, SYD - LHR, SYD - SCL and SYD - NRT as opposed to using CX, BA, LA and JL (respectively).
Apr 6, 2014, 9:21 pm
#183
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: OOL
Programs: VA Plat, QF LTS, UA MM, Hilton Diamond, Rydges Black, ,Le-Club Gold
Posts: 3,659
Well no the people who don't much care about frequent flyer points won't change their behaviour, while those who do care - FTers for example - will be more likely to change their FF program than their flights. It's not as though QFF was such a great program even before the changes, international flyers will be well aware of the aAdvantages of other programs.
Apr 6, 2014, 10:00 pm
#185
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Programs: QF Gold, VA Plat, IHG Plat Amb, LCAH Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,846
Apr 7, 2014, 12:19 am
#186
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
Currently, QF21/22 earns 35/70/140 (Y-/Y/J) SC and base points of 4,863.
With the change, QF21/22 earns 30 Y-/40 Y/60 Y+/120 D/135 J (and 50% of that if you're on JL771/772) and less then the base points unless you get Y+ or higher.
SYD-Most of Asia on QF codes (current zone 5 3,601-4,800 miles)
Current:
30 B, E, G, H, K, L, M, N, O, Q, S, and V
70 Y, T, R, W
140 D, I, J, C
New:
30 N,O,Q
40 K,M,L,S,G
60 Y,B,H, T
60 R
70 W
120 D,I
135 J,C
And there is still no word on if it will be flight based earn as is now, or per trip earn like EK (a lot of the changes are similar to Skywards). eg, SYD-SIN-HND (QF5-QF4017[JL38] in D)
Flight based:
East AU>SE Asia 120SC/7800 points + "Longer International including between Singapore and Japan" 100SC/4800 points = 220SC/12600 points
or
Trip based (a la EK):
East AU>NE Asia 120SC/7800 points
Apr 15, 2014, 1:48 am
#187
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SYD
Programs: QF WP/LTG | UA P
Posts: 13,530
Post July 1 Earning Calculator
I was just told by a friendly QF phone agent about the new points and SC earning calculator that is live on the QF web site:
https://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/do/...ointsEarnedNew
Much better than the horrible verbal descriptions of regions as first published.
https://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/do/...ointsEarnedNew
Much better than the horrible verbal descriptions of regions as first published.
Apr 15, 2014, 2:41 am
#188
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,422
I was just told by a friendly QF phone agent about the new points and SC earning calculator that is live on the QF web site:
https://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/do/...ointsEarnedNew
Much better than the horrible verbal descriptions of regions as first published.
https://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/do/...ointsEarnedNew
Much better than the horrible verbal descriptions of regions as first published.
Apr 15, 2014, 4:03 am
#189
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SYD
Programs: QF WP/LTG | UA P
Posts: 13,530
Apr 15, 2014, 7:14 am
#190
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SYD
Programs: |QF Platinum|DL Platinum|HH Gold|ALL Silver|
Posts: 1,738
Higher status credits and points earn haven't, for me, overcome more convenient CX flight times and a 10% price differential for an upcoming flight to HKG.
Apr 15, 2014, 6:48 pm
#191
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Programs: QF Gold LTG (ow Saph), HHon Silver, Marriot Gold
Posts: 2,927
I was just told by a friendly QF phone agent about the new points and SC earning calculator that is live on the QF web site:
https://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/do/...ointsEarnedNew
Much better than the horrible verbal descriptions of regions as first published.
https://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/do/...ointsEarnedNew
Much better than the horrible verbal descriptions of regions as first published.
Albeit would hate to have been the one who had to program it... Simply looking up mileage distances would have been so much simpler !
Apr 28, 2014, 2:45 am
#192
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW London and NW Sydney
Programs: BA Diamond, Hilton Bronze, A3 Diamond, IHG *G
Posts: 6,344
Am I right in saying that after July 1st, although points earning rates for QF and JQ will be devalued, OW airlines will still remain on the existing mileage-based earn rates?
Any idea when this is going to be enhanced?
Any idea when this is going to be enhanced?
Apr 28, 2014, 5:47 am
#193
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Programs: ►QFWP/LTG►VA WP►HyattExpl.►HiltonGold►ALL Silver
Posts: 21,994
AFAIK, Qantas have not yet published Point earn rates for partner airline travel after June 30th.
SC earn has been published: http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/...rtner-airlines
But on that page, note the following:
SC earn has been published: http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/...rtner-airlines
But on that page, note the following:
The way you earn Qantas Points on partner airline flights will transition to the same regional framework as the table above. Please ensure Your Profile is up to date so that we can keep you informed of these changes.
Apr 29, 2014, 3:25 am
#194
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW London and NW Sydney
Programs: BA Diamond, Hilton Bronze, A3 Diamond, IHG *G
Posts: 6,344
AFAIK, Qantas have not yet published Point earn rates for partner airline travel after June 30th.
SC earn has been published: http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/...rtner-airlines
But on that page, note the following:
SC earn has been published: http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/...rtner-airlines
But on that page, note the following:
The way you earn Qantas Points on partner airline flights will transition to the same regional framework as the table above. Please ensure Your Profile is up to date so that we can keep you informed of these changes.
Apr 29, 2014, 3:31 am
#195
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold(OWE), QF LTG, MR Plat, IHG Spire, Hertz PC
Posts: 8,156
AFAIK, Qantas have not yet published Point earn rates for partner airline travel after June 30th.
SC earn has been published: http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/...rtner-airlines
But on that page, note the following:
SC earn has been published: http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/...rtner-airlines
But on that page, note the following:
Assuming it goes in a similar vein, this really will be the end. I guess QFF can really start to transition to being a frequent shopper programme from now on. Flying will earn little, although flying QF will earn a little more, with CC spend being the obvious way to get points into the account.
What a sad end this is turning out to be.