Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Aug 8, 2017, 11:05 pm
#421
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
I completed the return leg on Saturday, arriving at PVG Sunday afternoon. Due to bad weather in the Cleveland area which saw scores of connecting flights being cancelled (including mine), I ended up being re-routed via Los Angeles. So what follows are a few comments on the LAX-PVG segment.
Despite the last minute placing, I managed to get 6A once again. Having now flown long-haul for a second time in this seat, my views are still pretty much as before - it's tight around the elbows, but otherwise a very comfortable and private seat. I slept for over 6 hours, no problems at all. Yes, there is a galley and a toilet facility right behind, but the noise is minimal / non-existent. I think AA do well to provide three bathrooms in business class. On a 787, I'd not normally expect more than two.
The staff and service were great once again. In fact, the three crew members who were working my area (which included the purser) were nothing but friendly and welcoming. It's reassuring to see this kind of consistency in service levels.
Food was slightly better this time around, and I must also mention that I was quite impressed by the array of nibbles in the galley area. Normally, on other airlines, you'd expect little more than some fruit, crisps and packets of biscuits / chocolate, but here on both flights, AA also added a large platter of sandwiches, plus a platter of cakes and assorted desserts. In my experience, this is the sort of thing than other airlines have cut back on in recent years as the company bean-counters started to have their way, so it's was nice to see it being offered here. This was, of course, on top of the mid flight snack that you could order for delivery to your seat.
All these things added to my impression that AA do actually have a very solid and consistent business class product on this route...providing you can get the right seat.
Flight time was 12 hours 10 minutes and we landed 50 minutes ahead of schedule.
Tim
I completed the return leg on Saturday, arriving at PVG Sunday afternoon. Due to bad weather in the Cleveland area which saw scores of connecting flights being cancelled (including mine), I ended up being re-routed via Los Angeles. So what follows are a few comments on the LAX-PVG segment.
Despite the last minute placing, I managed to get 6A once again. Having now flown long-haul for a second time in this seat, my views are still pretty much as before - it's tight around the elbows, but otherwise a very comfortable and private seat. I slept for over 6 hours, no problems at all. Yes, there is a galley and a toilet facility right behind, but the noise is minimal / non-existent. I think AA do well to provide three bathrooms in business class. On a 787, I'd not normally expect more than two.
The staff and service were great once again. In fact, the three crew members who were working my area (which included the purser) were nothing but friendly and welcoming. It's reassuring to see this kind of consistency in service levels.
Food was slightly better this time around, and I must also mention that I was quite impressed by the array of nibbles in the galley area. Normally, on other airlines, you'd expect little more than some fruit, crisps and packets of biscuits / chocolate, but here on both flights, AA also added a large platter of sandwiches, plus a platter of cakes and assorted desserts. In my experience, this is the sort of thing than other airlines have cut back on in recent years as the company bean-counters started to have their way, so it's was nice to see it being offered here. This was, of course, on top of the mid flight snack that you could order for delivery to your seat.
All these things added to my impression that AA do actually have a very solid and consistent business class product on this route...providing you can get the right seat.
Flight time was 12 hours 10 minutes and we landed 50 minutes ahead of schedule.
Tim
Sep 4, 2017, 1:29 am
#424
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Helsinki
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 143
Completed my TP run in this bird. Was in 1D from DUB-ORD and 5A on the return. Personally as a taller traveller i preferred the rear facing seat as it had more shoulder space when sitting up, so better for a daytime flight, but this doesn't matter when sleeping.
The DUB-ORD crew were a lot better than the return crew (not that the ORD-DUB crew were bad, the outbound crew were just more chatty and had more laughs with them), and the food was better too (if you have the Moroccan chicken on the menu then I recommend that). And as already stated, the galley has lots of different treats to snack on and hide in your hand luggage for later
Also as a word of advice if you're travelling from DUB, figure in at least 3 hours, as it took me almost 2 hours from check-in to gate because of the pre-clearance. I think at least 2 other US flights were leaving around same time and it was packed!
The DUB-ORD crew were a lot better than the return crew (not that the ORD-DUB crew were bad, the outbound crew were just more chatty and had more laughs with them), and the food was better too (if you have the Moroccan chicken on the menu then I recommend that). And as already stated, the galley has lots of different treats to snack on and hide in your hand luggage for later
Also as a word of advice if you're travelling from DUB, figure in at least 3 hours, as it took me almost 2 hours from check-in to gate because of the pre-clearance. I think at least 2 other US flights were leaving around same time and it was packed!
Sep 5, 2017, 1:55 am
#425
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: Mileage Plus 1K \\ ConciergeKey
Posts: 531
At the airport waiting for AA192, but came over on AA183 to Shanghai.
Decided on seat 4L (rear facing), but I took it because many mentioned that it offers a lot more privacy due to having your head more inset rather than near the aisles.
First off - YES, I did feel the rocking from the person behind me when she got up to use the bathroom, HOWEVER, she only did it twice and the movement was minute at best. I can see how people would have an issue with someone who gets up frequently or is heavier set than yourself, as it's a tiny but like sitting on a see-saw. The amount of movement is probably 3/4 of an inch at most, not much more.
Service was great had a great FA who was very attentive and provided me with anything that I needed as soon as I made the request. There was no doing something else for another passenger before helping me. It was always, "let me get that replacement headset for you immediately".
The one thing I didn't like was that they do collect the headsets with about 40 min to go, which quite frankly sucks, and they made the announcement 3 times (which means 6 times if you count the translation as well). What someone would do with a bose headset that's designed to only plug into the aircraft is beyond me.
The screen I felt is a bit outdated compared to OZ's first class, but I know I'm really comparing apples and oranges. Just wish that the screen was a little larger and a little more responsive.
Another tiny thing I didn't like was that the tray table doesn't go as far forward as I would have liked, so unless the seat was in the take off config, I felt like I was right on top of the table. (im 175 pounds and 5'11 for reference).
Loved that there was more space on either side of me due to being in the reverse position, those that were facing forward didn't have as much space as we did.
Definitely wish there was more storage areas in the seat though.
Looking forward to the 77w in row 13 window, will have to do a comparison once I get back to LAX.
Would really like to offer out a heartfelt thank you to all the insight in this thread, helped me make a great informed decision.
Happy flying everyone and hope you all had a great labor day.
Decided on seat 4L (rear facing), but I took it because many mentioned that it offers a lot more privacy due to having your head more inset rather than near the aisles.
First off - YES, I did feel the rocking from the person behind me when she got up to use the bathroom, HOWEVER, she only did it twice and the movement was minute at best. I can see how people would have an issue with someone who gets up frequently or is heavier set than yourself, as it's a tiny but like sitting on a see-saw. The amount of movement is probably 3/4 of an inch at most, not much more.
Service was great had a great FA who was very attentive and provided me with anything that I needed as soon as I made the request. There was no doing something else for another passenger before helping me. It was always, "let me get that replacement headset for you immediately".
The one thing I didn't like was that they do collect the headsets with about 40 min to go, which quite frankly sucks, and they made the announcement 3 times (which means 6 times if you count the translation as well). What someone would do with a bose headset that's designed to only plug into the aircraft is beyond me.
The screen I felt is a bit outdated compared to OZ's first class, but I know I'm really comparing apples and oranges. Just wish that the screen was a little larger and a little more responsive.
Another tiny thing I didn't like was that the tray table doesn't go as far forward as I would have liked, so unless the seat was in the take off config, I felt like I was right on top of the table. (im 175 pounds and 5'11 for reference).
Loved that there was more space on either side of me due to being in the reverse position, those that were facing forward didn't have as much space as we did.
Definitely wish there was more storage areas in the seat though.
Looking forward to the 77w in row 13 window, will have to do a comparison once I get back to LAX.
Would really like to offer out a heartfelt thank you to all the insight in this thread, helped me make a great informed decision.
Happy flying everyone and hope you all had a great labor day.
Sep 14, 2017, 11:18 am
#426
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: PVD, BOS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,664
Flying ORD-NRT (AA153) tomorrow and scored a miles+cash upgrade to J on the outbound sector. Waitlisted on the return (AA154 on 9/17), so fingers crossed it clears too.
Anyway, I chose 2A for the outbound, based on the advice I read here. In the event I get upgraded on the return, I'm looking for suggestions as to the best seat to choose. Unfortunately, all window seats on the NRT-ORD leg are taken. My choices are all middle seats: [b]2H, 4D/H, 5D/H, 6H, 7D[\b].
I'm currently leaning toward 4D/H mainly so that I get a better chance of meal choice by being at the front (if my upgrade doesn't clear prior to T-24). Since I'm one-bagging it, I'd rather not take 2H due to lack of overhead bin. Thoughts?
Anyway, I chose 2A for the outbound, based on the advice I read here. In the event I get upgraded on the return, I'm looking for suggestions as to the best seat to choose. Unfortunately, all window seats on the NRT-ORD leg are taken. My choices are all middle seats: [b]2H, 4D/H, 5D/H, 6H, 7D[\b].
I'm currently leaning toward 4D/H mainly so that I get a better chance of meal choice by being at the front (if my upgrade doesn't clear prior to T-24). Since I'm one-bagging it, I'd rather not take 2H due to lack of overhead bin. Thoughts?
Sep 14, 2017, 11:42 am
#427
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Flying ORD-NRT (AA153) tomorrow and scored a miles+cash upgrade to J on the outbound sector. Waitlisted on the return (AA154 on 9/17), so fingers crossed it clears too.
Anyway, I chose 2A for the outbound, based on the advice I read here. In the event I get upgraded on the return, I'm looking for suggestions as to the best seat to choose. Unfortunately, all window seats on the NRT-ORD leg are taken. My choices are all middle seats: [b]2H, 4D/H, 5D/H, 6H, 7D[\b].
I'm currently leaning toward 4D/H mainly so that I get a better chance of meal choice by being at the front (if my upgrade doesn't clear prior to T-24). Since I'm one-bagging it, I'd rather not take 2H due to lack of overhead bin. Thoughts?
Anyway, I chose 2A for the outbound, based on the advice I read here. In the event I get upgraded on the return, I'm looking for suggestions as to the best seat to choose. Unfortunately, all window seats on the NRT-ORD leg are taken. My choices are all middle seats: [b]2H, 4D/H, 5D/H, 6H, 7D[\b].
I'm currently leaning toward 4D/H mainly so that I get a better chance of meal choice by being at the front (if my upgrade doesn't clear prior to T-24). Since I'm one-bagging it, I'd rather not take 2H due to lack of overhead bin. Thoughts?
Sep 14, 2017, 12:32 pm
#428
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: PVD, BOS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,664
Yeah, I read through that. I wasn't sure if there was any other guidance aside from that. It sounds like the windows are the best, but seat choice makes less difference among the middle seats (excluding yellow seats).
Sep 14, 2017, 12:46 pm
#429
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: Double OWE (AA EXP, QF Plat), FI Gold
Posts: 1,887
Flying ORD-NRT (AA153) tomorrow and scored a miles+cash upgrade to J on the outbound sector. Waitlisted on the return (AA154 on 9/17), so fingers crossed it clears too.
Anyway, I chose 2A for the outbound, based on the advice I read here. In the event I get upgraded on the return, I'm looking for suggestions as to the best seat to choose. Unfortunately, all window seats on the NRT-ORD leg are taken. My choices are all middle seats: [b]2H, 4D/H, 5D/H, 6H, 7D[\b].
I'm currently leaning toward 4D/H mainly so that I get a better chance of meal choice by being at the front (if my upgrade doesn't clear prior to T-24). Since I'm one-bagging it, I'd rather not take 2H due to lack of overhead bin. Thoughts?
Anyway, I chose 2A for the outbound, based on the advice I read here. In the event I get upgraded on the return, I'm looking for suggestions as to the best seat to choose. Unfortunately, all window seats on the NRT-ORD leg are taken. My choices are all middle seats: [b]2H, 4D/H, 5D/H, 6H, 7D[\b].
I'm currently leaning toward 4D/H mainly so that I get a better chance of meal choice by being at the front (if my upgrade doesn't clear prior to T-24). Since I'm one-bagging it, I'd rather not take 2H due to lack of overhead bin. Thoughts?
Sep 18, 2017, 12:38 pm
#430
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: PVD, BOS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,664
Just flew ORD-NRT and back in J (AA153/AA154).
Outbound I was in seat 2A (tail number N804AN) and the return I was in seat 2H (tail number N807AA). 2A was really bad on this particular plane. The seat rocked horribly whenever the guy in 1A moved even slightly. There was at least 2" of up and down movement. The seat also had a tendency to slide forward and backward on its own for no reason. I got zero sleep.
The return was infinitely better. A MUCH smaller amount of rocking when the guy in 3H moved (1/2 - 3/4" tops), but it was very minimal and did not affect my sleep at all. Very good experience.
I'll chalk up the bad outbound to a broken seat and I've sent a note to AA about it. That aside, I'd say I slightly preferred 2A simply because it was by the window on a day flight. Shoulder space was slightly less, as others have mentioned, but I'm not a big person so it was fine either way.
Overall, I really liked the 788. I just hope AA fixes that broken seat.
Outbound I was in seat 2A (tail number N804AN) and the return I was in seat 2H (tail number N807AA). 2A was really bad on this particular plane. The seat rocked horribly whenever the guy in 1A moved even slightly. There was at least 2" of up and down movement. The seat also had a tendency to slide forward and backward on its own for no reason. I got zero sleep.
The return was infinitely better. A MUCH smaller amount of rocking when the guy in 3H moved (1/2 - 3/4" tops), but it was very minimal and did not affect my sleep at all. Very good experience.
I'll chalk up the bad outbound to a broken seat and I've sent a note to AA about it. That aside, I'd say I slightly preferred 2A simply because it was by the window on a day flight. Shoulder space was slightly less, as others have mentioned, but I'm not a big person so it was fine either way.
Overall, I really liked the 788. I just hope AA fixes that broken seat.
Sep 28, 2017, 7:46 am
#432
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA & UK -- AA EXP 3.5MM, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat, Avis President's Club
Posts: 6,411
Sep 28, 2017, 7:54 am
#433
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 449
I agree with the post above. Never had an issue in the mini J cabin for international flights of people coming up to the J cabin. The FAs will close the thin curtain which usually does the trick. 6A or 6L are my preferred seats on the 788 if you are traveling alone and don’t mind riding backwards.
Sep 28, 2017, 9:14 am
#434
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP; BoNVoY Tit LTP
Posts: 1,923
I agree with the post above. Never had an issue in the mini J cabin for international flights of people coming up to the J cabin. The FAs will close the thin curtain which usually does the trick. 6A or 6L are my preferred seats on the 788 if you are traveling alone and don’t mind riding backwards.