Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Oct 16, 2016, 8:41 pm
#331
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: COS
Programs: AA EXP, IHG Gold
Posts: 36
Flew the 787-8 AA83 to Auckland in 6A (not connected to another seat) on 3 Oct. Quiet, no issues sitting backwards, no disturbance from nearby galley or restroom, good views of the wing/engine, slept for almost nine hours. Only negative was a definite lack of personal storage, especially when compared to 777-300ER and 787-9 (sat in 4A - fantastic seat and ride!).
Oct 16, 2016, 9:00 pm
#332
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Programs: AA Plat, SPG/Marriot Gold, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Expl
Posts: 2,363
Flew the 787-8 AA83 to Auckland in 6A (not connected to another seat) on 3 Oct. Quiet, no issues sitting backwards, no disturbance from nearby galley or restroom, good views of the wing/engine, slept for almost nine hours. Only negative was a definite lack of personal storage, especially when compared to 777-300ER and 787-9 (sat in 4A - fantastic seat and ride!).
Oct 24, 2016, 7:36 pm
#333
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 49
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
Does that suggest the seats are not currently firmly attached to the track in the floor? If so, could that be a hazard with sudden deceleration? Might the seats, and their occupants, crash into those in front of them?
Oct 25, 2016, 7:18 am
#334
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
The link states: they plan "to firm up the attachments to the seat tracks and to the base frames that the seats are positioned on."
Does that suggest the seats are not currently firmly attached to the track in the floor? If so, could that be a hazard with sudden deceleration? Might the seats, and their occupants, crash into those in front of them?
Does that suggest the seats are not currently firmly attached to the track in the floor? If so, could that be a hazard with sudden deceleration? Might the seats, and their occupants, crash into those in front of them?
Nov 1, 2016, 6:34 pm
#335
Join Date: Jan 2016
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 60
Travel with a 2.5 years old
Can you all recommend a workable seating configuration for traveling with a child (2.5 years old) in business? Or, do you all think that it would be better if we just fly coach cause I can be sitting directly next to my son. We're looking to fly from ORD - NRT. There's a possibility that my wife will join us but it seems now that it's only gonna be the 2 of us.
Really appreciate all the help.
Really appreciate all the help.
Nov 2, 2016, 6:13 am
#336
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
Can you all recommend a workable seating configuration for traveling with a child (2.5 years old) in business? Or, do you all think that it would be better if we just fly coach cause I can be sitting directly next to my son. We're looking to fly from ORD - NRT. There's a possibility that my wife will join us but it seems now that it's only gonna be the 2 of us.
Really appreciate all the help.
Really appreciate all the help.
Sit in a middle row, rear facing seats. This will put you and your child right next to one another.
I've done this 3x with my 4 year old, and it's been great. You can easily reach over to adjust their IFE, seat, or food.
Nov 2, 2016, 6:33 am
#337
Join Date: Jan 2016
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 60
Is the middle partition between seats adjustable? I read somewhere that you actually can't bring the middle partition down.
Nov 2, 2016, 6:35 am
#338
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
In 5 R/T's that I have been on in the 772 J cabin, these have always been unlocked and able to be adjusted up and down.
Nov 2, 2016, 6:51 am
#339
Join Date: Jan 2016
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 60
It is fully adjustable, yes. There are some reports of the divider being locked in the UP position on the refurbished 772's, but I have not read this about the 788's.
In 5 R/T's that I have been on in the 772 J cabin, these have always been unlocked and able to be adjusted up and down.
In 5 R/T's that I have been on in the 772 J cabin, these have always been unlocked and able to be adjusted up and down.
Nov 2, 2016, 8:44 am
#340
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
The link states: they plan "to firm up the attachments to the seat tracks and to the base frames that the seats are positioned on."
Does that suggest the seats are not currently firmly attached to the track in the floor? If so, could that be a hazard with sudden deceleration? Might the seats, and their occupants, crash into those in front of them?
Does that suggest the seats are not currently firmly attached to the track in the floor? If so, could that be a hazard with sudden deceleration? Might the seats, and their occupants, crash into those in front of them?
Nov 6, 2016, 9:18 am
#341
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Programs: AS MVP Gold 75K, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,598
I flew AA26 HND-LAX the other day. This was my first ever B788 flight. While I was impressed with the overall experience and flight, I do have to say the seat was lacking in overall quality. After reading through this thread I wisely reserved 5L. So at least I didn't have to deal with a shaky seat. But the seat just isn't well configured.
First off, the length of the seat is just insufficient for anybody over 5'10". I'm 5'11" and could not get myself in a position where my feet were not crammed into the footend while lying flat. It made for a fitful sleep, when I was able to sleep. Trying to get the seat into lie flat mode was a challenge as well. The button, at least for 5L, is behind your right shoulder and blocked by the seat back. You actually have to push the seat back away and squeeze your fingers between the button and seat to push the button. Then the button was overly sensitive. So as the seat moved I had to continuously release and repush the button to get the recline to continue. While returning the seat to the upright position, the button wouldn't always work. It would go in fits and spells where I had to continuously release and repush the button until it finally gave in and worked. I do have to say the thing I disliked the most was the limitation to just two adjustment buttons. I prefer the older model seats, even the NGBC seat, with more adjustments options. Due to my apnea and sinus issues, I actually sleep better in plane seats that are just shy of flat. This seat just doesn't allow for a position that worked for me.
Also, the AVOD interface is just lacking. The software is greatly improved from its initial releases, but it is still in need of improvement. It's quirky, buggy, and inconsistent.
That said, the service was quite pleasant. The FA was just so very nice and helpful. Food quality was above expectation. After flying the JL B77W in J SFO-HND, I think I prefer the JL seat and the AA service (I know, hard to believe). While the JL service is very attentive, I found it to be very mechanical and somewhat cold. AA FAs seemed to be far warmer and more pleasant. This could possible be attributed to language barriers. Maybe AA don't deliver the same level of service as JL, but at least I felt like they were more engaged with me as opposed to just following a scripted protocol.
First off, the length of the seat is just insufficient for anybody over 5'10". I'm 5'11" and could not get myself in a position where my feet were not crammed into the footend while lying flat. It made for a fitful sleep, when I was able to sleep. Trying to get the seat into lie flat mode was a challenge as well. The button, at least for 5L, is behind your right shoulder and blocked by the seat back. You actually have to push the seat back away and squeeze your fingers between the button and seat to push the button. Then the button was overly sensitive. So as the seat moved I had to continuously release and repush the button to get the recline to continue. While returning the seat to the upright position, the button wouldn't always work. It would go in fits and spells where I had to continuously release and repush the button until it finally gave in and worked. I do have to say the thing I disliked the most was the limitation to just two adjustment buttons. I prefer the older model seats, even the NGBC seat, with more adjustments options. Due to my apnea and sinus issues, I actually sleep better in plane seats that are just shy of flat. This seat just doesn't allow for a position that worked for me.
Also, the AVOD interface is just lacking. The software is greatly improved from its initial releases, but it is still in need of improvement. It's quirky, buggy, and inconsistent.
That said, the service was quite pleasant. The FA was just so very nice and helpful. Food quality was above expectation. After flying the JL B77W in J SFO-HND, I think I prefer the JL seat and the AA service (I know, hard to believe). While the JL service is very attentive, I found it to be very mechanical and somewhat cold. AA FAs seemed to be far warmer and more pleasant. This could possible be attributed to language barriers. Maybe AA don't deliver the same level of service as JL, but at least I felt like they were more engaged with me as opposed to just following a scripted protocol.
Nov 6, 2016, 9:35 am
#342
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Sacramento, CA
Programs: AA Exec Plat, Hyatt,Marriott,BA,AS
Posts: 4,428
I flew AA26 HND-LAX the other day. This was my first ever B788 flight. While I was impressed with the overall experience and flight, I do have to say the seat was lacking in overall quality. After reading through this thread I wisely reserved 5L. So at least I didn't have to deal with a shaky seat. But the seat just isn't well configured.
First off, the length of the seat is just insufficient for anybody over 5'10". I'm 5'11" and could not get myself in a position where my feet were not crammed into the footend while lying flat. It made for a fitful sleep, when I was able to sleep. Trying to get the seat into lie flat mode was a challenge as well. The button, at least for 5L, is behind your right shoulder and blocked by the seat back. You actually have to push the seat back away and squeeze your fingers between the button and seat to push the button. Then the button was overly sensitive. So as the seat moved I had to continuously release and repush the button to get the recline to continue. While returning the seat to the upright position, the button wouldn't always work. It would go in fits and spells where I had to continuously release and repush the button until it finally gave in and worked. I do have to say the thing I disliked the most was the limitation to just two adjustment buttons. I prefer the older model seats, even the NGBC seat, with more adjustments options. Due to my apnea and sinus issues, I actually sleep better in plane seats that are just shy of flat. This seat just doesn't allow for a position that worked for me.
Also, the AVOD interface is just lacking. The software is greatly improved from its initial releases, but it is still in need of improvement. It's quirky, buggy, and inconsistent.
That said, the service was quite pleasant. The FA was just so very nice and helpful. Food quality was above expectation. After flying the JL B77W in J SFO-HND, I think I prefer the JL seat and the AA service (I know, hard to believe). While the JL service is very attentive, I found it to be very mechanical and somewhat cold. AA FAs seemed to be far warmer and more pleasant. This could possible be attributed to language barriers. Maybe AA don't deliver the same level of service as JL, but at least I felt like they were more engaged with me as opposed to just following a scripted protocol.
First off, the length of the seat is just insufficient for anybody over 5'10". I'm 5'11" and could not get myself in a position where my feet were not crammed into the footend while lying flat. It made for a fitful sleep, when I was able to sleep. Trying to get the seat into lie flat mode was a challenge as well. The button, at least for 5L, is behind your right shoulder and blocked by the seat back. You actually have to push the seat back away and squeeze your fingers between the button and seat to push the button. Then the button was overly sensitive. So as the seat moved I had to continuously release and repush the button to get the recline to continue. While returning the seat to the upright position, the button wouldn't always work. It would go in fits and spells where I had to continuously release and repush the button until it finally gave in and worked. I do have to say the thing I disliked the most was the limitation to just two adjustment buttons. I prefer the older model seats, even the NGBC seat, with more adjustments options. Due to my apnea and sinus issues, I actually sleep better in plane seats that are just shy of flat. This seat just doesn't allow for a position that worked for me.
Also, the AVOD interface is just lacking. The software is greatly improved from its initial releases, but it is still in need of improvement. It's quirky, buggy, and inconsistent.
That said, the service was quite pleasant. The FA was just so very nice and helpful. Food quality was above expectation. After flying the JL B77W in J SFO-HND, I think I prefer the JL seat and the AA service (I know, hard to believe). While the JL service is very attentive, I found it to be very mechanical and somewhat cold. AA FAs seemed to be far warmer and more pleasant. This could possible be attributed to language barriers. Maybe AA don't deliver the same level of service as JL, but at least I felt like they were more engaged with me as opposed to just following a scripted protocol.
Nov 6, 2016, 12:23 pm
#343
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 5,475
7A and 7L in the rear mini-cabin also meet your criteria, but you may encounter similar drawbacks as posted above regarding 5A and 5L.
Nov 6, 2016, 4:11 pm
#344
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CUR
Posts: 2,170
I flew AA26 HND-LAX the other day. This was my first ever B788 flight. While I was impressed with the overall experience and flight, I do have to say the seat was lacking in overall quality. After reading through this thread I wisely reserved 5L. So at least I didn't have to deal with a shaky seat. But the seat just isn't well configured.
First off, the length of the seat is just insufficient for anybody over 5'10". I'm 5'11" and could not get myself in a position where my feet were not crammed into the footend while lying flat. It made for a fitful sleep, when I was able to sleep. Trying to get the seat into lie flat mode was a challenge as well. The button, at least for 5L, is behind your right shoulder and blocked by the seat back. You actually have to push the seat back away and squeeze your fingers between the button and seat to push the button. Then the button was overly sensitive. So as the seat moved I had to continuously release and repush the button to get the recline to continue. While returning the seat to the upright position, the button wouldn't always work. It would go in fits and spells where I had to continuously release and repush the button until it finally gave in and worked. I do have to say the thing I disliked the most was the limitation to just two adjustment buttons. I prefer the older model seats, even the NGBC seat, with more adjustments options. Due to my apnea and sinus issues, I actually sleep better in plane seats that are just shy of flat. This seat just doesn't allow for a position that worked for me.
Also, the AVOD interface is just lacking. The software is greatly improved from its initial releases, but it is still in need of improvement. It's quirky, buggy, and inconsistent.
That said, the service was quite pleasant. The FA was just so very nice and helpful. Food quality was above expectation. After flying the JL B77W in J SFO-HND, I think I prefer the JL seat and the AA service (I know, hard to believe). While the JL service is very attentive, I found it to be very mechanical and somewhat cold. AA FAs seemed to be far warmer and more pleasant. This could possible be attributed to language barriers. Maybe AA don't deliver the same level of service as JL, but at least I felt like they were more engaged with me as opposed to just following a scripted protocol.
First off, the length of the seat is just insufficient for anybody over 5'10". I'm 5'11" and could not get myself in a position where my feet were not crammed into the footend while lying flat. It made for a fitful sleep, when I was able to sleep. Trying to get the seat into lie flat mode was a challenge as well. The button, at least for 5L, is behind your right shoulder and blocked by the seat back. You actually have to push the seat back away and squeeze your fingers between the button and seat to push the button. Then the button was overly sensitive. So as the seat moved I had to continuously release and repush the button to get the recline to continue. While returning the seat to the upright position, the button wouldn't always work. It would go in fits and spells where I had to continuously release and repush the button until it finally gave in and worked. I do have to say the thing I disliked the most was the limitation to just two adjustment buttons. I prefer the older model seats, even the NGBC seat, with more adjustments options. Due to my apnea and sinus issues, I actually sleep better in plane seats that are just shy of flat. This seat just doesn't allow for a position that worked for me.
Also, the AVOD interface is just lacking. The software is greatly improved from its initial releases, but it is still in need of improvement. It's quirky, buggy, and inconsistent.
That said, the service was quite pleasant. The FA was just so very nice and helpful. Food quality was above expectation. After flying the JL B77W in J SFO-HND, I think I prefer the JL seat and the AA service (I know, hard to believe). While the JL service is very attentive, I found it to be very mechanical and somewhat cold. AA FAs seemed to be far warmer and more pleasant. This could possible be attributed to language barriers. Maybe AA don't deliver the same level of service as JL, but at least I felt like they were more engaged with me as opposed to just following a scripted protocol.
The little iPod/iPhone looking thing has the seat controls. They are very adjustable and even have a "memory" option to save your preffered position. The buttons you were using were the "quick" buttons to go fully flat (when already reclined) or bring it back up into the upright position.
Last edited by Djokison; Nov 6, 2016 at 4:23 pm
Nov 6, 2016, 9:42 pm
#345
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
You were using the wrong buttons.
The little iPod/iPhone looking thing has the seat controls. They are very adjustable and even have a "memory" option to save your preffered position. The buttons you were using were the "quick" buttons to go fully flat (when already reclined) or bring it back up into the upright position.
The little iPod/iPhone looking thing has the seat controls. They are very adjustable and even have a "memory" option to save your preffered position. The buttons you were using were the "quick" buttons to go fully flat (when already reclined) or bring it back up into the upright position.