Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Jul 15, 2017, 8:25 pm
#406
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: England
Programs: BA Silver, VS Gold
Posts: 19
Wow, really glad I checked this thread out.
I have to fly PVG-CLE and back later this month and had narrowed down the carrier choice to either AA or United, based upon minimising the number of stops and travel times that worked with my itinerary.
I decided to go with AA, mainly due to their 1-2-1 business layout, as opposed to United who are still working with the pre-Polaris 2-4-2. I think that was the right decision.
Coming here, I see there are still yet further minefields to negotiate re seating due to the many problems that are detailed in this thread.
Based on the feedback, I adjusted my seat choice from an outbound 3A and inbound 4A to 6A both ways. Still a bit nervous re seat length as I'm nearly 6'5. I'm also hoping reports of no-so-great onboard service are greatly exaggerated...it's been many, many years since I flew AA internationally.
Why can't booking travel be easy?
Tim
I have to fly PVG-CLE and back later this month and had narrowed down the carrier choice to either AA or United, based upon minimising the number of stops and travel times that worked with my itinerary.
I decided to go with AA, mainly due to their 1-2-1 business layout, as opposed to United who are still working with the pre-Polaris 2-4-2. I think that was the right decision.
Coming here, I see there are still yet further minefields to negotiate re seating due to the many problems that are detailed in this thread.
Based on the feedback, I adjusted my seat choice from an outbound 3A and inbound 4A to 6A both ways. Still a bit nervous re seat length as I'm nearly 6'5. I'm also hoping reports of no-so-great onboard service are greatly exaggerated...it's been many, many years since I flew AA internationally.
Why can't booking travel be easy?
Tim
Jul 17, 2017, 9:24 am
#407
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Helsinki
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 143
Wow, really glad I checked this thread out.
I have to fly PVG-CLE and back later this month and had narrowed down the carrier choice to either AA or United, based upon minimising the number of stops and travel times that worked with my itinerary.
I decided to go with AA, mainly due to their 1-2-1 business layout, as opposed to United who are still working with the pre-Polaris 2-4-2. I think that was the right decision.
Coming here, I see there are still yet further minefields to negotiate re seating due to the many problems that are detailed in this thread.
Based on the feedback, I adjusted my seat choice from an outbound 3A and inbound 4A to 6A both ways. Still a bit nervous re seat length as I'm nearly 6'5. I'm also hoping reports of no-so-great onboard service are greatly exaggerated...it's been many, many years since I flew AA internationally.
Why can't booking travel be easy?
Tim
I have to fly PVG-CLE and back later this month and had narrowed down the carrier choice to either AA or United, based upon minimising the number of stops and travel times that worked with my itinerary.
I decided to go with AA, mainly due to their 1-2-1 business layout, as opposed to United who are still working with the pre-Polaris 2-4-2. I think that was the right decision.
Coming here, I see there are still yet further minefields to negotiate re seating due to the many problems that are detailed in this thread.
Based on the feedback, I adjusted my seat choice from an outbound 3A and inbound 4A to 6A both ways. Still a bit nervous re seat length as I'm nearly 6'5. I'm also hoping reports of no-so-great onboard service are greatly exaggerated...it's been many, many years since I flew AA internationally.
Why can't booking travel be easy?
Tim
Jul 17, 2017, 12:47 pm
#408
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: AA EP
Posts: 2,203
Ummm.. maybe u want to speak with Boeing. Are you saying that AA cabin designers had a meeting to figure out how to eliminate overheads for 2 center rows?
Jul 17, 2017, 1:11 pm
#409
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Does anyone know what the deal is with the partitions in the middle seats so that I can speak to my traveling companion? Sometimes they are permenantly up, while other times they are down. Is this just luck of the draw, or is there a rhyme or reason to which middle seats have the partition down?
I had heard the middle sests in the forward J cabin have the partition permanently down, while the aft J cabin have them permanently up, but could not confirm this. I would like to be able to talk with my friend on a 15hr flight.
I had heard the middle sests in the forward J cabin have the partition permanently down, while the aft J cabin have them permanently up, but could not confirm this. I would like to be able to talk with my friend on a 15hr flight.
The Zodiac seat partition was inoperable by passengers or cabin crew as delivered, and ground crew will place these up, down, alternating up - down, etc. in random fixed positions as they wish. There is no way for passengers to know the configuration of privacy dividers until they board. Some aircraft have been repaired so partitions are operable now, others not.
At this time it's luck of the draw for center privacy dividers. My wife and I had privacy dividers up, meaning I had to stand to speak with her or apply ophthalmic medication. The pax in back of us were solo travelers who whose body language expressed their discomfort at having no privacy dividers.
The rows 1 and 2 center overhead bins were displaced by the crew rest compartment in the fuselage crown.
Jul 17, 2017, 1:14 pm
#410
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Posts discussing the Boeing 787-9 and the B/E Aerospace Super Diamond Solo Business Suite have been moved to the appropriate thread here; this thread is dedicated to the Boeing 787-8 with the Zodiac Concept D Business Suite in Business Class.
/Moderator
/Moderator
Jul 17, 2017, 10:15 pm
#412
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Jul 18, 2017, 4:06 am
#413
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: England
Programs: BA Silver, VS Gold
Posts: 19
Tim
Jul 31, 2017, 4:04 am
#414
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Helsinki
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 143
Aug 1, 2017, 4:18 am
#415
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: England
Programs: BA Silver, VS Gold
Posts: 19
On the whole, very good!
It was a 13 hour, 13 minute flight and I felt comfortable throughout. Despite being 6 foot 5, I felt I had enough room to stretch out and sleep, though the space wasn't quite as much as I'd experienced in Cathay Pacific 777 or A330 business class, which is a similar sort of 1-2-1 layout. Seat 6A felt very private as well and there were absolutely no rocking or vibrations resulting from the movements of other passengers.
The only slight negative was that I did feel my elbow room was a little constricted by the tables on both sides, but I guess that's better than constricted shoulder room if you choose a forward facing seat.
The service I found to be warm and friendly, two crew members were especially outstanding. The food offering perhaps needs some work - it was a little on the bland side, but there was no shortage of it. We had a meal post take-off, a snack served to the seat mid-flight and then a further meal served pre-landing. For the first meal, the starter and main were served separately, not all at once.
Overall, I'd choose AA again for this leg. :-)
Tim
It was a 13 hour, 13 minute flight and I felt comfortable throughout. Despite being 6 foot 5, I felt I had enough room to stretch out and sleep, though the space wasn't quite as much as I'd experienced in Cathay Pacific 777 or A330 business class, which is a similar sort of 1-2-1 layout. Seat 6A felt very private as well and there were absolutely no rocking or vibrations resulting from the movements of other passengers.
The only slight negative was that I did feel my elbow room was a little constricted by the tables on both sides, but I guess that's better than constricted shoulder room if you choose a forward facing seat.
The service I found to be warm and friendly, two crew members were especially outstanding. The food offering perhaps needs some work - it was a little on the bland side, but there was no shortage of it. We had a meal post take-off, a snack served to the seat mid-flight and then a further meal served pre-landing. For the first meal, the starter and main were served separately, not all at once.
Overall, I'd choose AA again for this leg. :-)
Tim
Aug 1, 2017, 8:49 am
#416
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Denver
Programs: AS, AA, UA, Hilton, Marriott, Caesars DE
Posts: 2,070
On the whole, very good!
It was a 13 hour, 13 minute flight and I felt comfortable throughout. Despite being 6 foot 5, I felt I had enough room to stretch out and sleep, though the space wasn't quite as much as I'd experienced in Cathay Pacific 777 or A330 business class, which is a similar sort of 1-2-1 layout. Seat 6A felt very private as well and there were absolutely no rocking or vibrations resulting from the movements of other passengers.
The only slight negative was that I did feel my elbow room was a little constricted by the tables on both sides, but I guess that's better than constricted shoulder room if you choose a forward facing seat.
The service I found to be warm and friendly, two crew members were especially outstanding. The food offering perhaps needs some work - it was a little on the bland side, but there was no shortage of it. We had a meal post take-off, a snack served to the seat mid-flight and then a further meal served pre-landing. For the first meal, the starter and main were served separately, not all at once.
Overall, I'd choose AA again for this leg. :-)
Tim
It was a 13 hour, 13 minute flight and I felt comfortable throughout. Despite being 6 foot 5, I felt I had enough room to stretch out and sleep, though the space wasn't quite as much as I'd experienced in Cathay Pacific 777 or A330 business class, which is a similar sort of 1-2-1 layout. Seat 6A felt very private as well and there were absolutely no rocking or vibrations resulting from the movements of other passengers.
The only slight negative was that I did feel my elbow room was a little constricted by the tables on both sides, but I guess that's better than constricted shoulder room if you choose a forward facing seat.
The service I found to be warm and friendly, two crew members were especially outstanding. The food offering perhaps needs some work - it was a little on the bland side, but there was no shortage of it. We had a meal post take-off, a snack served to the seat mid-flight and then a further meal served pre-landing. For the first meal, the starter and main were served separately, not all at once.
Overall, I'd choose AA again for this leg. :-)
Tim
Great to hear, I have the DFW-PVG booked for November and hope to have the same experience.
Aug 7, 2017, 8:46 pm
#417
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: United Premier
Posts: 77
Flying DFW-PEK next week.
So far options I have are: 1A, 5L and 7L.
Which should I go? From this thread, it seems 5 and 7L are detached, but would seating close too close to the engine block my view? (I like to take pictures)
Edit: First time on AA 788
So far options I have are: 1A, 5L and 7L.
Which should I go? From this thread, it seems 5 and 7L are detached, but would seating close too close to the engine block my view? (I like to take pictures)
Edit: First time on AA 788
Last edited by JayEX35; Aug 7, 2017 at 8:52 pm
Aug 7, 2017, 10:59 pm
#418
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 449
Keep in mind that none of the forward facing seats have your head next to the window so photos are tougher while seated.
Personally I prefer a seat not connected on AAs 788 because I find it easier to sleep (for me it is more important than photos). Too each their own. Hope you enjoy your flight. The 787 is a nice bird.
Aug 8, 2017, 3:35 pm
#419
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 632
Just flew DFW-PVG-DFW and had 5L both flights. Really liked this seat.
While there is a galley behind, it was basically not used (though mid flight snacks were parked there).
It is one of the detached ones, as others have notices. There is 1-1/2 window, no issues there. Felt very private.
I did notice that the middle 5 seats were able to put down the privacy screen.
While there is a galley behind, it was basically not used (though mid flight snacks were parked there).
It is one of the detached ones, as others have notices. There is 1-1/2 window, no issues there. Felt very private.
I did notice that the middle 5 seats were able to put down the privacy screen.
Aug 8, 2017, 10:47 pm
#420
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: England
Programs: BA Silver, VS Gold
Posts: 19
I completed the return leg on Saturday, arriving at PVG Sunday afternoon. Due to bad weather in the Cleveland area which saw scores of connecting flights being cancelled (including mine), I ended up being re-routed via Los Angeles. So what follows are a few comments on the LAX-PVG segment.
Despite the last minute placing, I managed to get 6A once again. Having now flown long-haul for a second time in this seat, my views are still pretty much as before - it's tight around the elbows, but otherwise a very comfortable and private seat. I slept for over 6 hours, no problems at all. Yes, there is a galley and a toilet facility right behind, but the noise is minimal / non-existent. I think AA do well to provide three bathrooms in business class. On a 787, I'd not normally expect more than two.
The staff and service were great once again. In fact, the three crew members who were working my area (which included the purser) were nothing but friendly and welcoming. It's reassuring to see this kind of consistency in service levels.
Food was slightly better this time around, and I must also mention that I was quite impressed by the array of nibbles in the galley area. Normally, on other airlines, you'd expect little more than some fruit, crisps and packets of biscuits / chocolate, but here on both flights, AA also added a large platter of sandwiches, plus a platter of cakes and assorted desserts. In my experience, this is the sort of thing than other airlines have cut back on in recent years as the company bean-counters started to have their way, so it's was nice to see it being offered here. This was, of course, on top of the mid flight snack that you could order for delivery to your seat.
All these things added to my impression that AA do actually have a very solid and consistent business class product on this route...providing you can get the right seat.
Flight time was 12 hours 10 minutes and we landed 50 minutes ahead of schedule.
Tim