QBK

Here's another data point to support the "PlusPoint upgrades are all messed up" thesis. Note that whatever the heck is going on actually worked in my favor here, but I'm deeply confused anyway.

I recently flew IAD-FRA (772). Applied a GPU when I booked back in early November, which converted to a PlusPoints upgrade request on Dec. 4. I requested both PP and J.

I spent the last 72 hours at #1 on the PP list and #4 or #5 on the J list. At T-24, J was 42/50, but started to fill up. Also, Y got oversold, so it was hard to monitor J because at least 3 seats seemed to be blocked for oversale. At T-3, J was booked 45 + 3 blocked, and then at T-2 the top two passengers on the J list vanished (leaving me at #2 ) and J went to "Full", with no indication of whether some seats were blocked.

Since the oversale blocked my visibility into the number of seats left, I asked the gate agent: "Hi, I'm very near the top of both lists -- are there going to be any more upgrades?" This is when things got weird. A longish conversation between the two GAs ensued, with one of them pointing at something on the screen and saying things like "This one requested both J and O, but this one is J-only, and so it won't let me do blah blah." There was some rolling of eyes, and what seemed to be acknowledgment that "yeah, it's always like that." And then she handed me a J boarding pass. Which I clutched covetously and delightedly... but with a side order of guilt, because the name that was #1 on the J upgrade list was still #1 on the upgrade list, even after I showed as upgraded.

To make things weirder, there was one no-show for J... and I'm pretty sure that seat went to the person who was right behind me on the PP list, not to the person who had been sitting at #1 on the J list.

I can see two possibilities here. The first is that the upgrade list is just wrong -- the two of us who got J upgrades were supposed to be at the top of the list, and the app-visible list was incorrect. The other possibility is that somebody just got screwed out of the upgrade they deserved (twice). If it's the latter, then I'm guessing that in some situations, pax who only request J (not O) can't be upgraded by the system. This is just a wild guess (based on overhearing GA conversation), but it might suggest that requesting all available upgrades is a good idea until this gets fixed.

Kacee

3 are always blocked for crew rest on the Polaris 772. Also, note that if Y were oversold, the block would be in PE.

Not saying the list wasn't mess, that seems to be the norm lately.

lotemblizej

One possibility here is that the system mistakenly prioritizes ANYONE who requests both upgrades (Y to PE and PE to C) over those who request only an upgrade from Y to C. Thus, a silver could leap over a GS or 1K on the list into C. Most of the problems reported seem to relate to clearing into C, not PE. Just speculation, but the cause appears to be a major glitch in the new system that, as pointed out above, may be hard to diagnose and fix.

JimInOhio

I can see how this might erroneously happen. If UA's computers upgrade someone from Y to C, they may then count that person as a C passenger waitlisting for F. That passenger may then be seen by UA's computers as having priority over a Y customer only waitlisting for F. Certainly something that needs to be fixed if this is what's happening.

cesco.g

Upon check-in for a domestic flight GS agent said I was #2 on WL, however App showed me as #5 .
I was on a full-fare/PN-eligible coach ticket and GPU-ed. Did not bother to raise issue with GA as F was full and it was a short flight.

mr8

Interesting data point. My parents checked in for a flight and now that their PNR split, only one of them is showing on the list.
They were both showing on the list before check in so I called and they confirmed that they're both still on the list even though the flight status only shows one.

Kind of makes you wonder how many phantom people are on the list now!

QBK

Ah, this is good to know; I was wondering about that (because the 3 blocked seats seemed to be occupied on the seat map as well). Thanks for clarifying that! Although... oddly enough, the “blocked” number fluctuated between +2 and +3 until about T-12, which is weird if 3 are blocked for crew rest.

However, on this flight PE seemed to be either full or close to it. So... the block for over sale would probably extend “through” PE into J, right? FWIW, they were soliciting volunteers, and Y showed as “full” on standby, so there’s additional circumstantial evidence that Y was oversold.

This is possible. To add complexity, there’s also a new class of upgraders in the mix: people who booked PE and are waitlisted for J. They’re supposed to be prioritized over all Y—>J upgrades (except maybe GS?). But Y pax who request both PE and J and have been upgraded to PE should not get higher priority. So... I can see a lot of opportunities for UA’s web coding team to make mistakes in the logic.

Kacee

A Y oversale will result in J seat blocking only if PE is also booked full. The app will often describe a cabin as booked "full" even in the absence of an oversale. You really need to look at the inventory figures, combined with the "booked" numbers to legitimately conclude there was an oversale of any cabin.

Yes, there were already concerns about whether the system was working properly with PE in the mix; now with PP they've totally broken it.

QBK

The following is an overly technical/pedantic question, but... hey, I’d like to know the correct answer! If Y is overbooked by 3 seats, and PE is not full, but booked 23/24, then will 2 J seats be blocked? This is how I’d expect the system to work.

findark

Yes, but... there is no promise that the first overbooked seat in the inferior cabin causes a block in the next cabin. They could just be choosing to straight overbook.

Absolute

No, my entire trip (start to end) was YOW-IAD-ZRH-DXB // DXB-ZRH-EWR-YOW, no UK flights in there (I've paid that $100 too, when using a GPU for LHR). It was requested with a GPU for the ZRH-IAD-YOW at time of booking at the end of November (W fare), and with PlusPoints on YOW-IAD-ZRH on December 4th, as it was a G fare, and not upgradable prior to the conversion.

The weird part was it was a domestic/transborder EWR-YOW segment; as I said to the GA, even if there was an issue with my GPU/P+ request, I should have been entitled to that seat as a CPU with no co-pay. At the time of boarding, there was still one extra seat in J open, and even after the agent overrode the system for me, she went on the PA to announce J was available for purchase. Yet, it took me to call the 1K desk and them to tell me to ask her to get a supervisor for her to upgrade me.

Kacee

Yes, but keep in mind that if we are talking about how UA displays that scenario, PE will show as "full" rather than blocked 1. And on the Polaris 772, the J cabin will now show blocked 5, with 3 blocked for crew rest (unless J is blocked full, in which case the display will simply say "full" without any reference to the block).

myperks

Got some upgrade emails this morning for an outbound and return TPAC flight from PP to C for January travel. And at 30pts each, put my otherwise unused RPU converted to use.

side note, using the future date upgrade listing, are Nonrevs already on both PP and C upgrade lists this far out or are those revenue passengers? Because it appears united cleared all the passengers for my upgraded flights from the PP list (including myself) that was only on the C upgrade list.

QBK

Good point. It’s not like United publishes an API for this. We’re just getting glimpses of the external consequences of their internal algorithm, which is proprietary and subject to random changes and quirks anytime they feel like it.

Got it. In this case, PE was showing “Full” starting at T-24, but 5 minutes before boarding it was still showing checked in 23/24. However, I never saw more than +3 blocked J seats, which is consistent with crew rest only, so I’m led to conclude that Y wasn’t overbooked enough to matter.

I’m surprised that 3 J seats are blocked for crew rest even on 7-hour TATL flights.

Kacee

NRPS, yes. NRSA, no.