spin88

+1 The constant pitch that this is just a fare increase so get over it, misses the forest. Pricing changes all the time, based upon demand, available buckets, etc. What United did was tie its matching price to BE and then demand an up-charge if I want to have the benefits of my elite status (or credit to retain it). And they did (and in some markets still do) this at relatively high fare levels, which impacts business travelers.

This was just a rather blatant effort to force those with status on United (those who care about E+ access, status credit, an upgrade change if 1K/GS, etc) to pay more to use that status. It made United uncompetitive, and I would argue it makes MP a far les competitive program to try to have elite status in, given it makes access to elite benefits pay as you go.

belynch

We have a "lowest cost logical routing" price tolerance to give travelers discretion to choose their preferred carrier. It's nearly identical to what I've had at other employers.

The extra paperwork is because I'm not selecting the lowest fare available for the flights I want. Our travel admin says they can book me for $800 on United and I'm saying I want the exact same flights for $840. That's an exception form. The rule was created long before BE existed. Does it need to be changed? Sure. But, to my point, why do I keep having to fight the system to give United business when I'm finding less and less value in giving United my business.

\

I live in a tier 2 city and every flight involves a connection (unless I'm flying to a carrier's east coast hub or ORD) and generally fly to a non-hub city. So if I'm flying ROC - PDX I can fly AA, DL, or UA all with one stop and they're all priced almost identically almost every time for out on Monday home on Friday at normal hours. Don't believe me; check it. It's like this in almost every secondary market to secondary market out there.

Your strawman is fundamentally wrong on just about every point. In that scenario I could choose whatever flight I want because it's within the price tolerance of the lowest least cost logical fare. If I wanted to buy out of the lowest fare I gotta go through the paperwork.

minnyfly

Right there at #3 is one aspect of what we're talking about by looking at prices in a vacuum. BE is NOT a universal price increase. We're long, long past the time when you can simply imagine the BE fare was the previous Y fare and go from there. You weren't lied to when it was advertised as "more choices". That's a fact. You were not informed of the primary purpose of BE, but then again when does a business openly say a change is to make you pay more? And are we really that crazy to expect it? If you resent being "lied" to in this manner, there isn't a business left that's sinless. Ironically I find UA to be one of the more transparent airlines out there.

And if you're annoyed by an airline offering another purchasing option that you're simply not interested in, good luck finding an airline you aren't annoyed with. And this being dehumanizing? Seriously?

$10-15 fare spreads were common in the initial rollout. Not sure why its news now. In general, I'm seeing spreads increase. But with that, I'm seeing more ULCC-like fares. Can't complain with that.

Boraxo

I think that the rub. For me the over/under is $25 - that is, I am willing to pay $25 to avoid a Spirit experience and further to enjoy my elite benefits and accumulate EQM on UA.

But if you read the entire thread you will see time and time again the difference is well in excess of $25. And the BE folks are being rewarded for rolling the dice with E+ seats assigned at T-24. It absolutely doesn't work for families with young children. And therein lies the resentment from elites and why UA is finding that BE is merely snagging low value customers and actually shedding high value customers.

As for ULCC-like fares, I haven't seen any @sfo that really stood out compared to what I see often on VX, B6 and WN fare sales. For years UA has simply matched others, as opposed to the old days when you'd find newspaper adverts trotting out the latest sale fares. Nope, the message we get is "we are punishing you for buying BE" not "we are cutting fares" because they aren't.

Exiled in Express

I bought my first BE fare yesterday, I am really not sure what United's goal is here.

MSP-LAX for $39.20 on an E75 so no middle seats. Upcharge to G was $40, at a lower difference I would have bit if only for the mileage eligibility but at more than double the BE fare I'll be content with my personal item and unknown seat.

spin88

+1 I think this fundamental fact is something that UA has utterly failed to understand since 2012. They keep thinking they have monopoly hub power and people have to fly then. The truth is that with Delta expanding on the West Coast and ex-BOS and JFK, AA+US, WN building out there network, and to a lesser extent (on the west coast) with AS+VX, most second tier cities no longer have a "best option" airline, they have several that work equally well.

And major metropolitan areas (SEA, SFO, BOS) are seeing much more competition and more options. E.g. when I bailed on UA just after the SFH, it was hard to make it work, I flew several different airlines. But today, I can put 80% of my travel direct on VX+AS and perhaps 70% direct on DL, vs maybe 85% direct on UA. Things that might fly in a monopoly hub (like charging your elite fliers $30+ extra to use their elite benefits and not get treated like they are flying NK) just don't fly in a competitive market.

minnyfly

I don't believe you based on my experiences with secondary cities. In general, they are not highly competitive and vary widely in price. So I checked your route. And I still don't believe it. For example, when does ROC-PDX see this rampant price matching? If you limit it to one-stop there some matching or near matching on some days among some airlines for some times, but it's limited. It's nothing like all-day, everyday price matching one can often find on highly competitive nonstop routes. For example, let's take ROC-PDX on 9/11-9/15, a good day for matching. On the outbound all three airlines have RT prices of $592-596. You might think there's good matches. Well, maybe not. AA has no departures before mid-afternoon. DL is all early morning except for one evening and one mid-day that takes you out of the way through ATL (who wants that?). UA is the only one with a variety of departure times and sensible routes. On the return the situation is reversed, with DL being the only one to offer a wide variety at the low price. Was it really an equal fight? Not really. You can't just pick your airline at the same price.

And then you have to ask the question. Who's matching who? If other airlines are matching UA's BE fares, go fly someone else and take the free discount while you can. No harm in it, and no reason to have a major vendetta against an airline (it's like hating an airline for not being cheapest on every route--ridiculous). For example, I've been subject to DL's E fares for years now. I don't like it, but it's not one of the reasons I generally shy away from flying DL. I take what all airlines give me and make my own purchasing decision based on that.

CMK10

I saw some very unhappy people at the gate at RDU today on BE fares. The first had one bad, an wheelie bag that would have to go in the overhead bin, and nothing else. He was forced to pay $50 to check it after the gate agent said he remembered him from the check in counters and it was made clear to him the bag had to be checked even if it was his only one.

Two women had paid $25 for checked bags but thought it was a carry on bag fee and were forced to pay another $25 at the gate to check their bags. They claimed the website was confusing about this which frankly it may well be, being as it's United.com.

Sure made for a great free show for me though.

WineCountryUA

Moderator Note

As the discussion of the purchase of a Basic Economy fare on ctrip began a discussion focused on dealing with ctrip, have broken it out as a separate thread
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...my-ticket.html

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator

caverunner17

Booking flights to Chicago from Denver during Thanksgiving. F9/NK have fares between 150-200 RT. UA on the other hand is selling BE for $300.

Seriously United? a 50-100% premium to get a BE seat?

DELee

What is the fare for non-BE?

David

zeer0

Looks like they fixed the BE seat selection algorithm. Got 39a/b (very last row) there and 14a/b back. Although not any worse than I would get with normal E, which has often also been the last row as a *G. One can hope for SAS Go/SAS Go Light type rules.

caverunner17

DEN-ORD adds $20 to the cheapest flight, ORD-DEN adds $66

All in, the cheapest non-BE fare I see is almost $390. Of course, I'm going with Spirit for $158 RT + $60 for bags ($218) as it's almost half the cost.

jsloan

Those numbers should be $20 and $46. Selecting BE on the return flight would re-fare the outbound to be BE as well, so the "$66" is a combination of the two.

caverunner17

I usually buy domestic tickets as 2x OW instead of RT as I often find another carrier has a better price on one of the tickets vs the RT price.